Question for Christians

The thread started by EDSL (the real one ) about Christians snitching on their brethren to the PAGAN government leaves me asking.


Being that this nation(The US) does not legally adhere to the Biblical Laws, and has laws, norms, and values that are leaning further, and further away from those of Chrisitanity are there Christians who are fleeing, and if so where are they going?

I Ask because in Islam there is the act of making 'Hijrah" which involves Muslims making a migration from the lands of disbelief to the lands where ISlam is the culture or at least a place where the values are still more conservative. Many Muslims make 'hijrah' to countries like Saudi Arabia for example as it is seen as the ultimate place to immigrate to (especially for American Muslims). Everyone else just goes to make pilgrimage.

I was just wondering is there anywhere that Christians go or are encouraged to go in such times?

There are many.

Usually of the catholic denomination.

Off the top of my head I can think of:

Lourdes
Basilica of our lady of Aparecida in Brasil
Bethany site of the resurrection
Via Francegina in Rome where Peter died
St Catherine's monastery in Egypt- where the burning bush and ten commandments were recieved.

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Also you have world youth day- where over four million Christians go on pilgrimage.

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There is nowhere on this earth for the people of Jesus Christ to run to but in him and he in us.

Catholocism is an anti-christ false version of Christianity, so all those places havelock named are irrelevant.

Now America for most people abroad has been that place because of the leniency with regards to practicing your own religion, but there is no country on this earth that observes the true laws of Jesus.

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Please do not disrespect my religion.

I am a God-fearing woman who practices Catholocism and it is in no way "anti-christ" or "false", and the places that are holy to me are in no way "irrelevant"

I am kind, attend church, have been baptised, and most of all, ACCEPTING of others. If that's not being a good christian, I don't know what is.

I'm not trying to have beef with you, but please be more considerate with your comments. I won't disrespect the way you practice religion if you show me the same respect.

First and foremost, you are lucky that I'm submitting myself to the words of Jesus Christ or else I would've cut you with my tongue for the remark you just made at me. I have the freedom to say whatever I like. If you don't like it, you reserve the right to put my font on ignore.






Questions for you:

• Why is Mary exalted in your so called christian religion?? Where in the Holy Bible does it call Mary a lord???
• Why does Catholocism call priests "father" when Jesus strictly prohibits it:
  Quote:

  Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

• Why does your so called christian religion forbid their clergy to marry when the Holy Bible says that is a doctrine of a devil: 1Timothy 4
  Quote:

  1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

• Why do you bow down to the pope and kiss his hand?? That's blasphemy!! Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego refused to bow down before anybody but God the father in Heaven because the commandment commands it

Prayerfully soon you will learn that it's a FALSE form of christianity.

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As I said before, I'm not trying to get into some big argument with you. I have NO problems with you. Putting you on ignore would not change the fact that what you said was hurtful to me and the millions of other catholics worldwide.

I'm sorry if I offended you, but I tried my best to address my issue with your comments as nicely as possible. I am just defending my beliefs as you would surely defend yours.

I'm not gonna address your questions because quite frankly, you're not gonna change my beliefs and I'm not gonna change yours. It's a moot point. I will just respectfully disagree with you, and be on my merry way

First off, Negra. Let me thank you for making this thread. You, as a nonChristian have observed that:

1) The United States is NOT a Christian country, nor has it ever been
2) The values of this country are continuing to stray farther and farther from the principles of Christianity
3) Professed Christians should make a concerted effort not to involve themselves in the goings-on of a nation which does not function according to God's standards and morality

You would not believe how many professed Christians conveniently sidestep these fundamental lines of reasoning. You would not believe how many of this same lot get fighting mad should you call them on it.

To answer your question though, Negra, Our Teacher Jesus said that his followers would not be able to escape, that they would be temporarily trapped in this regard. He said they would be in the world yet no part of it. And for that reason, the world would hate them. In other words, if someone calls himself or herself a Christian but he and his ENTIRE CONGREGATION is not being ridiculed, bullied, slandered, etc. over their beliefs and lifestyle, then something is wrong. Those people are part of the majority and not the minority.

"I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world" (John 17:14-16)

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Like it or not there are some VERY HIGHLY corrupt people behind catholicism. The pope all of them...CORRUPT. They go as far as to incorporate pagan values into catholicism, tricking people who don't know any better.

And to answer your question negra... I don't really know where we can go. All I know is you have to be right within yourself.

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I actually met a few Christians that lived in Malaysia, and one in UAE, I even saw nuns there, and although these are majority Muslim countries they really enjoyed their life there. T
here are churches in both nations, and they said that although their are a minority in those places the values of the societies make life easier for them. For instance marriage is still considered ideal, and out of wedlock relations, and children are few, the media is somewhat conservative, and people are in general more into family values, and its safer.

I have found Christians the sincere ones to be some of the kindest people, and very easy to be around because of some basic shared values.

Thank you again for making this thread, Negra.

If you don't mind, I have a closely-related question to you and any other nonChristians who might be reading:

The instructor tells his students not to be a part of the world, to exist there amid the violence and warmongering and nationalism but to not take an active share in any of it. Democracy is supposedly a form of government where everyone has an equal chance to have a share in what this ungodly country decides to do, even if it ends in innocent people being nuked by the hundreds of thousands.

Would I be keeping myself separate from the world if I voted?

YES or NO. And if you like, why.

NO CHRISTIANS, thank you very much. Just nonChristians. I'm looking for objective, unbiased viewpoints on a theistic line of reasoning.

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Well this is a very good question, and something that we differ in opinions amongst Muslims.

I would have possibly voted in the last election, but I got some insight into why I shouldnt.

As a Muslim we believe that God's Law is the law that should be upheld, and as long as the laws of a nation are in line or dont conflict with those then it is ok.

However the concept of a democracy cannot function along side God's Law because it is based on the opinions of the majority. The majority may in fact be corrupt, uneducated, or ignorant, and then the nation suffers blindly because they are being led by something other than what is good.

Leadership in ISlam is considered a trust between that person and their Creator, and they will have to answer for what they led the people to, and away from.
Likewise the people are a reflection of their leader. If they are corrupt their leader will be as well.
There is a saying from the Quran that states that God will not change the condition of a people until they change that that is within themselves. (Im paraphrasing)

There is also a saying from The Prophet that says something and (I am so paraphrasing again) that people are responsible for their own oppression because we should fight oppression of ourselves, and others even if it be just to verbally speak out about it.

Im not talking about the type of opression that pops up into the average person's mind, because most people equate oppression with everyone not being able to do what they want to do when they want to do it, but the kind that does not allow people to live morally.

So as a Muslim I chose not to vote because I cannot risk bearing the responsibilty of electing someone who does not adhere to God's Law, especially if their style of leadership is in contradiction to it because part of the blame will be on me, and those who put them, him, or her in power. If we live here than that is not necessarily everyone's choice, and we have to have patient with our circumstances, but we do not have to directly contribute to it.

I hope that makes sense.

Well this is a very good question, and something that we differ in opinions amongst Muslims.

I would have possibly voted in the last election, but I got some insight into why I shouldnt.

As a Muslim we believe that God's Law is the law that should be upheld, and as long as the laws of a nation are in line or dont conflict with those then it is ok.

However the concept of a democracy cannot function along side God's Law because it is based on the opinions of the majority. The majority may in fact be corrupt, uneducated, or ignorant, and then the nation suffers blindly because they are being led by something other than what is good.

Leadership in ISlam is considered a trust between that person and their Creator, and they will have to answer for what they led the people to, and away from.
Likewise the people are a reflection of their leader. If they are corrupt their leader will be as well.
There is a saying from the Quran that states that God will not change the condition of a people until they change that that is within themselves. (Im paraphrasing)

There is also a saying from The Prophet that says something and (I am so paraphrasing again) that people are responsible for their own oppression because we should fight oppression of ourselves, and others even if it be just to verbally speak out about it.

Im not talking about the type of opression that pops up into the average person's mind, because most people equate oppression with everyone not being able to do what they want to do when they want to do it, but the kind that does not allow people to live morally.

So as a Muslim I chose not to vote because I cannot risk bearing the responsibilty of electing someone who does not adhere to God's Law, especially if their style of leadership is in contradiction to it because part of the blame will be on me, and those who put them, him, or her in power. If we live here than that is not necessarily everyone's choice, and we have to have patient with our circumstances, but we do not have to directly contribute to it.

I hope that makes sense.

Are you kidding me, girl??? We are SOOOO there!!!

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Something just occurred to me, Negra... I remember your saying my faith as I explained it sounded like Islam. Now I see what you're saying! Are you sure you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses? LOL

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