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The Hawkins Family Church Issues!

bluetokyo

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I am tic.kled. at those who didn't know they were gay.


No really...I AM tickled!
To be honest, the reason I never knew that Edwin or Walter was gay was because I never really saw Edwin or Walter that much. I grew up primarily LISTENING to the music of the Hawkins because my mother played their music constantly in our house in the 70's.
 

veman96054

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Here I am and I got a lot to say!!!! (my computer is making my postes
come out gapy so look over it just drink the tea!!!)

[ I just got off the phone with one of the Hawkins Family members..prior
I talked to some of The Love Center members...So I'm not just running
off at the mouth...I've been knowning all the Hawkins since I was a
child I traveled and did concerts with them and various other gospel-
superstars and some of the Hawkins Family memebers are related 2 me.
This what I am saying is coming straight from the horses mouth and
from what I know...I done been 2 Love Center prior and after Walter
died...........And for the record Walter was Gay!!!!! & so is Edwin!!!!!


The poster passionfruit I don't know why you groan Metrolady & NCGirl
everything they typed is the gospel truth!!! (deal with it)!!!!!! Now....
I had posted a while back that Walter Hawkins son Jamie had been...
installed as the pastor and a lot of the members wasn't happy about
it including the Hawkins..(go back and check my postes) So don't come
at me like I am a liar b/c I'm not ..I know what I am talking about I'm
on the inside.


Yes Jamie Hawkins stepped down this past sunday b/c they didn't like
how he was running the church. First thing Jamie did was started clean-
ing out all the homosexuals out the church. He said if you were in the life style you couldn't hold a position in the church....he was going on his
father Bishop Walter Hawkins instructions....Its true that Jamie is a
R&B secular artist and his wife Sunny Hawkins sings gospel. Jamie was
doing well he would come and play the keyboard for his Dad. But when
Walter knew for a fact he probably wouldn't make it he called his son.


He didn't call his brother Edwin or Daniel Hawkins he called his son
plus he confided in the Late Bishop Kenneth Moales who did his eulogy
that he wanted his son to take over the church.. Jamie expressed 2
his father that he couldn't do it but his father told him he had faith in
him that he could do it.


Isn't it strange he did want his brothers too take his place?????:no:
He wanted his son (and their is a reason 4 that) I wont go into that.
But Walter sat Jamie down and told him these exact words..........



Don't let the flesh beat you down!!!!! (that was my mistake
Walter said)!!!!!!!!:err:I let the Flesh beat me down!!!!

They beating up on Jamie and Jamie is only trying to do what
his father told him to do....Walter went on to say that the his church-
Love Center was out of hand and it was to far gone for him to do some-
thing about it but with a new adminstration (his son Jamie) the church
could start out on a new foot.


[Bishop Walter Hawkins also confided to several people's
close to him (And I heard it 2)!!!!!

That God had warn him that if he didn't straighten out
the church right away ...GOD WAS GOING 2 KILL HIM!!!!!:skeleton:::
[/B]
[/I]

Walter knew that Edwin wasn't pastor material...(he got a hot temper)
I saw him go off on former Love Center members who came for tickets
for Walter funeral he blasted them...told them No!!!! they weren't welcome
at Walters Funeral and we don't need you blah blah blah just a hot mess
but in all fairness Walter's daughter Trystan told them off 2. Jamie is
more easy going like his father (I've known him his since a baby)

Walter felt the church was so out of control and it was, that he
had let so much go on he had made his bed hard so he had to lie in
it...Obnoxious is not telling the whole story...he's trying to paint it
like Jamie is the monster in this story!!! He didn't tell how Ronnie Mc
Farland went and got a lawyer after Jamie sat him down from his position
and told him he couldn't function there at Love Center as a homosexual
Ronnie got a lawyer and sued Jamie!!!!!!!!

And Obnoxious is also not telling(b/c he probably don't know) that
the lawyer came and told Jamie (after Ronnie sued him) that their is a
law that stipalates that you can not speak against homosexuality over
the pulpit:err:........Now what kind of Law is that??? I ani't never heard
of it and many others ani't either....... Thats when Jamie said I'm OUT!!!!



Though I can't get into right now how Jamie mother the Legendary
Tramaine Hawkins is taking this(trust she's on her son side)...It is not
the way Obnoxious got it reading in the article like age 35 and under
is with Jamie......bull!!!!! Not true @ all:no:



Gospel Super-Star Daryl Coley who is back here living in the bayarea
b/c this is where he is from...and he's a member of the Love Center
Church and his kids....Walter was his daughter Godfather.......


Daryl Stood up and told the church when Jamie said he was stepping
down !! Daryl said I;m out 2.....He said I'm going where every Jamie
goes.(Daryl is in his 50's) he ani't under 35... another friend of mine
joined ranks with Daryl she's in her 40's and a lot of the older folks said
they were going with Jamie b/c they were tired of the homosexuality
going on their at love center.



Edwin Ought to be ashamed of himself talking about his nephew like
that but nothing he does suprises me..I wrote about how he screw
my friend over for the Song Oh Happy Day....and she helped him rearra-
nged that song..go to the Gospel Tea Thread and read my postes on
what he did 2 her.....And a lot of the members said Jamie should of fired
his Aunt Lynette Hawkins Stephens b/c she hadn't been to church but
once (when they installed Jamie) since Walter Died none of the Hawkins
had been 2 church....they didn't like it that Jamie was becoming the
pastor..none of them...but Tramaine use to catch hell from 2 of Walter's
sisters back in the day:thinking: I wont even go into that..they were
just jealous of her.(B/c Tramaine could sing & Walter made her the main
lead singer of the Hawkins)


The Hawkins just opened up a new resturant called DE Lite
Hawkins Family Cafe in Manteca and that's where they be most of
the time trying to run that resturant.Edwin is one of the Head chef's
there.



And another thing on Ronnie Mc Farland he was married and has
a daughter and he left his wife for his lover.

@ Verman96054...You said that people went to that church b/c
of the Hawkins now that Walter is gone?......I beg 2 differ with u yes
of course people gone come b/c of the celebrity factor..but you said
just Walter.....Edwin Hawkins was a bigger star than Walter was believe
it or not...Walter got his start singing in his brother group The Edwin
Hawkins Singers...when they sung as kids around the bayarea Walter
wouldn't sing with them in the beginning b/c he couldn't carry a tune
:laugh:


And he turned out to be a muuuuuuuuuuuch better singer than Edwin
Lynette Hawkins Stephens is a star in her own right. Gospel SuperStar
Daryl Coley is back at Love Center and several of the local gospel artist here in the bayarea I could name that still go 2
Walter church even though he's dead now.
.

After Walter died and I took on his name as my username a lot
of posters didn't even known who he was??? Just as I was getting
P.m.s from those who knew who he was and wanted to ask me questions. I was getting some from posters like who is Walter?
I know who Edwin Hawkins is.


If Walter was here he wouldn't like that his son is being treated
this way..& Jamie's right his Grandmother gave Walter the Money 2
start the church and record the 1st Love alive album..and another
thing people aren't aware of is Bishop Ernestine Cleveland Reems-Dick
erson Jamie & Tramaine Aunt and Jamie's Grandmother Lois sister is
mentoring Jamie and guiding him in his directions along with his late
father Bishop Walter Hawkins how too clean up the church.

I will try to keep this thread abreast of any new development..the
family member gave its blessing for me to keep the record straight...
I'm leaving 2 go take care of my sister in a few day b/c of a major-
surgery she's having but while I'm here I will tell what I can!!!!!!...
I think the best thing 2 come out of this is that we all feel that Bishop Walter Hawkins got it right with god..for him 2 tell
his son what he did.


And That is a blessing within itself!!!!:dance:
Sad it had 2 go down like this and tomorrow is his birthday.
Rest In Peace Bishop Walter L Hawkins~~~:rose:
Walter turning the church over to Jamie was wrong on many levels. First cause the church need to pick its leaders. Not the dying leader. OFten cancer patients experience dementia caused by the illness and the drugs used. So his dying wishes need to be evaluated to make sure he does not cause additional pain.

Second, as a parent, I do not like the fact that Walter used guilt to get Jamie to do something he did not seem to be that interested in. Judging from your posts, Jamie seemed to have a wonderful independent life of accomplishments. Manipulating kids into careers, especially this profession, leads them into embarrassing scandals. I often wondered if Jamal Bryant would rather be a politician, in which he would be good at, instead of a minister.

And Obnoxious is also not telling(b/c he probably don't know) that
the lawyer came and told Jamie (after Ronnie sued him) that their is a
law that stipalates that you can not speak against homosexuality over
the pulpit
err.gif
........N ow what kind of Law is that??? I ani't never heard
of it and many others ani't either....... Thats when Jamie said I'm OUT!!!!

If the fired minister was not working for a church, or religious organization, it would be illegal to fire him for being gay. The lawyer was gonna cost Jamie a lot of money in defending the lawsuit.

Also note, that the CA gay marriage law was written to insinuate that religious organizations would have to recognize, perform, and provide other services to gay married couple. That was the reason it was struck down. If they removed that clause then it may have passed.

I did not feel obnoxious was making Jamie out to be the bad guy.

However, the church was strongly gay. You had an openly gay assistance Pastor. Casting out the gay staffers is not going to be met well with much of the congregation.

So what the Hawkins family put up the money for the church. You cannot own a church.

Jamie needs to do what is right for himself, and go back to living his life on his terms. If he does not have the passion, or education, then this is gonna cause a lot of misery for a lot of people.

Tremaine is so bitter. I have met her. She is a wonderful singer, and makes sure the business is straight before she steps on the stage. Her experiences with Walter. I E why they broke up (he being gay is one reason). Is not helping Jamie in this situation

Jamie needs to move on and get another church. From what I am discerning, he needs to stop letting his parents pressure him into this course of action.
 

veman96054

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Beautifully said Metrolady your post made me:cry:...Yes I too believe
my friend Walter Hawkins is now resting with Jesus and he is okay.My
heart goes out to Jamie 2. Lets lift him in prayer.. 2 hear your Dad tell U
he was wrong all this years and in short don't do like I did. And for Jamie
to take that message and stand up against his family the Hawkins and the
Love Center Family shows what kind of man Jamie is(he didn't condone)
his fathers life style!!!! It is a lot to take in....I've been in a blank-stare
since getting off the phone 2day with some of the family.(U hit it on
the head repobate mind) & we reap what we sow whether good r bad.

I'll say this Jamie is not by himself he's not only a Hawkins but he's a
Cleveland by way of his mother Tramaine and they roll deep!!! U r right
Walter wrote some songs that is still minstering 2 so many people over
30 years later......The song you posted is just one of many beautiful
songs he wrote. His songs yet minister 2 me like u when I going thru!!
Thanks MetroLady:hug:...Happy Birthday Walter..!!!!!!!!

May 18 1949----- July 11 2010 :rose-dead:


I do not know the people involved.

However, your statement

2 hear your Dad tell U
he was wrong all this years and in short don't do like I did.

Can you not argue that Walter had a lot to apologize to his son for. Like we all do at the end of our life.

Living a gay lifestyle is hard on a kid.

I hope that Jamie will abandon this effort to pastor a church, and do what he wants to do.

I want to be clear. Jamie's stance on homosexuality is not an issue.

The issue I see is that Jamie had very little interest in Pasturing. Had built a life for himself.

Jamie needs to continue that life and stop letting his father and family manipulate him.
 

cece08

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When Jamie and the rest of the Hawkins family were on TBN last August, I remember thinking, "can he really take over his father's church?" Ofcourse, they are big, heavy shoes to fill, but I was more concerned with the fact that he was mostly on the road with secular acts and didn't seem to have enough theological training.

After reading the mess that is going on there from OP's article, I'm wondering if he should've just left LC at the beginning and started a whole new church so he could've avoided all of this drama, but after reading Walter Hawkins' post, I now understand why he decided to pastor his father's church. If that's what his father wanted, one of his last wishes, the church should accept that. Unfortunately, they're not ready for change or being CHANGED just like Walter's song. All my life I've heard how homosexuality was rampant and acceptable at that church. I'm surprised some didn't know Walter and Edwin were/are gay, that's all I've ever heard from family members and church folk who followed them.

Just in case anyone missed it, this is when TBN did their tribute to Walter last August. I thought it was a well done tribute with the Hawkins family and Andre and Sandra Clark:

YouTube - Jamie Hawkins on TBN 8-24-10 Life of Walter Hawkins

YouTube - Lynette Hawkins Stephens on TBN 8 24 10 Life of Walter Hawkins Part 2 of 2

YouTube - Edwin Hawkins on TBN Interview about O Happy Day 8-24-10

YouTube - Edwin Hawkins on TBN 8-24-10 History of Love Center Church - Walter Hawkins

YouTube - Feddie & Daniel Hawkins On TBN on 8-24-10 Talking of life of Walter Hawkins

YouTube - Andrae & Sandra Crouch on TBN 8-24-10 Life of Walter Hawkins
I'm sorry, but I just can't with TBN. I will watch the rest later on and Edwin still wearing the 1969 style on his head lol. Donnie lost alot of weight.
 

cece08

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Walter turning the church over to Jamie was wrong on many levels. First cause the church need to pick its leaders. Not the dying leader. OFten cancer patients experience dementia caused by the illness and the drugs used. So his dying wishes need to be evaluated to make sure he does not cause additional pain.

Second, as a parent, I do not like the fact that Walter used guilt to get Jamie to do something he did not seem to be that interested in. Judging from your posts, Jamie seemed to have a wonderful independent life of accomplishments. Manipulating kids into careers, especially this profession, leads them into embarrassing scandals. I often wondered if Jamal Bryant would rather be a politician, in which he would be good at, instead of a minister.

And Obnoxious is also not telling(b/c he probably don't know) that
the lawyer came and told Jamie (after Ronnie sued him) that their is a
law that stipalates that you can not speak against homosexuality over
the pulpit
err.gif
........N ow what kind of Law is that??? I ani't never heard
of it and many others ani't either....... Thats when Jamie said I'm OUT!!!!

If the fired minister was not working for a church, or religious organization, it would be illegal to fire him for being gay. The lawyer was gonna cost Jamie a lot of money in defending the lawsuit.

Also note, that the CA gay marriage law was written to insinuate that religious organizations would have to recognize, perform, and provide other services to gay married couple. That was the reason it was struck down. If they removed that clause then it may have passed.

I did not feel obnoxious was making Jamie out to be the bad guy.

However, the church was strongly gay. You had an openly gay assistance Pastor. Casting out the gay staffers is not going to be met well with much of the congregation.

So what the Hawkins family put up the money for the church. You cannot own a church.

Jamie needs to do what is right for himself, and go back to living his life on his terms. If he does not have the passion, or education, then this is gonna cause a lot of misery for a lot of people.

Tremaine is so bitter. I have met her. She is a wonderful singer, and makes sure the business is straight before she steps on the stage. Her experiences with Walter. I E why they broke up (he being gay is one reason). Is not helping Jamie in this situation

Jamie needs to move on and get another church. From what I am discerning, he needs to stop letting his parents pressure him into this course of action.
So you know Tremaine is a bitter woman just by meeting her? and you don't know any of them, but you are able to discern whats going on? okay, let me wave in my options: veman is discerning by what a article is saying or Walter, who actually know them,sung with them, and to this day, still converse with them....I'll stick with Walter and I don't think Walter was trying to pressure Jamie into doing anything, but I know Walter will come in and give her take on it.
 

DCKitty

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LMAO!! Ok, the statement "however, the church was strongly gay" is just so wrong on so many levels that it's hysterical to me, lol. I just love it, "the church was strongly gay." No offense to the font that typed it. It's just funny.

For those that are familiar with this church, how did they deal with scripture that denounced homosexuality? Did they just never talk about it?

Ok, I just have to say this and I know it's not PC but, I'm just amazed at the gay "Pastors". I have a temper. It's a lot better than it was but I can still flick off quick. When people get on my nerves, I like to cuss them out and fight them. I can't stand when people tell me not to go off. There are others that feel the same way, they have bad tempers too. Can we start a church and just ignore anything that remotely mentions not cussing folks out, going upside their head and being easily offended? Is that how it works?
 

Mochagurl

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I will say it again..."AIN'T NO GOSSIP LIKE CHURCH GOSSIP."
Poster Walter Hawkins you bought the tea yes indeed! I'm glad you don't go to my parish...LOL! Just joking, Thanks for the tea.
 

triselle

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Yes, from what I understand she is a mess. She was counseling Tonex and she speak regularly with Carlton Pearson. She did an interview recently and was sort of sarcastically saying if you take all the gays out of the church there wouldn't be a congregation. Also, she went on to say, there won't be any music in the church either.

I say, do it the old fashion way. The congregation can use their hands and feet and sing like they did in the old days. Someone in the congregation start the hymn and everyone else follow.

Yvette Flunder is so in your type attitude.:shame:



QUOTE: Probably because she is Yvette Flunder.

What:err:????????????....I truly hope not b/c she don't want me to
get aloose up in here on her. She got upset with Walter b/c she wanted Love Center to be a straight out church strictly known
for homosexuals and Lesbians but Walter said :no:......So she left and started her a church across town for homosexuals and lesbians and transgenders::talktohand:
 

triselle

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It's sad he gave his son this problem. He should have cleaned that church up during the time he was sick. He should have told them (church) the truth. This gay lifestyle is against God and here is what we are going to do to help get on the right track. Afterwards, he should have allowed his son to take over. I don't think anyone would have had a problem if it was handled appropriately.



Here I am and I got a lot tre is what we o say!!!! (my computer is making my postes
come out gapy so look over it just drink the tea!!!)

[ I just got off the phone with one of the Hawkins Family members..prior
I talked to some of The Love Center members...So I'm not just running
off at the mouth...I've been knowning all the Hawkins since I was a
child I traveled and did concerts with them and various other gospel-
superstars and some of the Hawkins Family memebers are related 2 me.
This what I am saying is coming straight from the horses mouth and
from what I know...I done been 2 Love Center prior and after Walter
died...........And for the record Walter was Gay!!!!! & so is Edwin!!!!!


The poster passionfruit I don't know why you groan Metrolady & NCGirl
everything they typed is the gospel truth!!! (deal with it)!!!!!! Now....
I had posted a while back that Walter Hawkins son Jamie had been...
installed as the pastor and a lot of the members wasn't happy about
it including the Hawkins..(go back and check my postes) So don't come
at me like I am a liar b/c I'm not ..I know what I am talking about I'm
on the inside.


Yes Jamie Hawkins stepped down this past sunday b/c they didn't like
how he was running the church. First thing Jamie did was started clean-
ing out all the homosexuals out the church. He said if you were in the life style you couldn't hold a position in the church....he was going on his
father Bishop Walter Hawkins instructions....Its true that Jamie is a
R&B secular artist and his wife Sunny Hawkins sings gospel. Jamie was
doing well he would come and play the keyboard for his Dad. But when
Walter knew for a fact he probably wouldn't make it he called his son.


He didn't call his brother Edwin or Daniel Hawkins he called his son
plus he confided in the Late Bishop Kenneth Moales who did his eulogy
that he wanted his son to take over the church.. Jamie expressed 2
his father that he couldn't do it but his father told him he had faith in
him that he could do it.


Isn't it strange he did want his brothers too take his place?????:no:
He wanted his son (and their is a reason 4 that) I wont go into that.
But Walter sat Jamie down and told him these exact words..........



Don't let the flesh beat you down!!!!! (that was my mistake
Walter said)!!!!!!!!:err:I let the Flesh beat me down!!!!

They beating up on Jamie and Jamie is only trying to do what
his father told him to do....Walter went on to say that the his church-
Love Center was out of hand and it was to far gone for him to do some-
thing about it but with a new adminstration (his son Jamie) the church
could start out on a new foot.


[Bishop Walter Hawkins also confided to several people's
close to him (And I heard it 2)!!!!!

That God had warn him that if he didn't straighten out
the church right away ...GOD WAS GOING 2 KILL HIM!!!!!:skeleton:::
[/B]
[/I]

Walter knew that Edwin wasn't pastor material...(he got a hot temper)
I saw him go off on former Love Center members who came for tickets
for Walter funeral he blasted them...told them No!!!! they weren't welcome
at Walters Funeral and we don't need you blah blah blah just a hot mess
but in all fairness Walter's daughter Trystan told them off 2. Jamie is
more easy going like his father (I've known him his since a baby)

Walter felt the church was so out of control and it was, that he
had let so much go on he had made his bed hard so he had to lie in
it...Obnoxious is not telling the whole story...he's trying to paint it
like Jamie is the monster in this story!!! He didn't tell how Ronnie Mc
Farland went and got a lawyer after Jamie sat him down from his position
and told him he couldn't function there at Love Center as a homosexual
Ronnie got a lawyer and sued Jamie!!!!!!!!

And Obnoxious is also not telling(b/c he probably don't know) that
the lawyer came and told Jamie (after Ronnie sued him) that their is a
law that stipalates that you can not speak against homosexuality over
the pulpit:err:........Now what kind of Law is that??? I ani't never heard
of it and many others ani't either....... Thats when Jamie said I'm OUT!!!!



Though I can't get into right now how Jamie mother the Legendary
Tramaine Hawkins is taking this(trust she's on her son side)...It is not
the way Obnoxious got it reading in the article like age 35 and under
is with Jamie......bull!!!!! Not true @ all:no:



Gospel Super-Star Daryl Coley who is back here living in the bayarea
b/c this is where he is from...and he's a member of the Love Center
Church and his kids....Walter was his daughter Godfather.......


Daryl Stood up and told the church when Jamie said he was stepping
down !! Daryl said I;m out 2.....He said I'm going where every Jamie
goes.(Daryl is in his 50's) he ani't under 35... another friend of mine
joined ranks with Daryl she's in her 40's and a lot of the older folks said
they were going with Jamie b/c they were tired of the homosexuality
going on their at love center.



Edwin Ought to be ashamed of himself talking about his nephew like
that but nothing he does suprises me..I wrote about how he screw
my friend over for the Song Oh Happy Day....and she helped him rearra-
nged that song..go to the Gospel Tea Thread and read my postes on
what he did 2 her.....And a lot of the members said Jamie should of fired
his Aunt Lynette Hawkins Stephens b/c she hadn't been to church but
once (when they installed Jamie) since Walter Died none of the Hawkins
had been 2 church....they didn't like it that Jamie was becoming the
pastor..none of them...but Tramaine use to catch hell from 2 of Walter's
sisters back in the day:thinking: I wont even go into that..they were
just jealous of her.(B/c Tramaine could sing & Walter made her the main
lead singer of the Hawkins)


The Hawkins just opened up a new resturant called DE Lite
Hawkins Family Cafe in Manteca and that's where they be most of
the time trying to run that resturant.Edwin is one of the Head chef's
there.



And another thing on Ronnie Mc Farland he was married and has
a daughter and he left his wife for his lover.

@ Verman96054...You said that people went to that church b/c
of the Hawkins now that Walter is gone?......I beg 2 differ with u yes
of course people gone come b/c of the celebrity factor..but you said
just Walter.....Edwin Hawkins was a bigger star than Walter was believe
it or not...Walter got his start singing in his brother group The Edwin
Hawkins Singers...when they sung as kids around the bayarea Walter
wouldn't sing with them in the beginning b/c he couldn't carry a tune
:laugh:


And he turned out to be a muuuuuuuuuuuch better singer than Edwin
Lynette Hawkins Stephens is a star in her own right. Gospel SuperStar
Daryl Coley is back at Love Center and several of the local gospel artist here in the bayarea I could name that still go 2
Walter church even though he's dead now.
.

After Walter died and I took on his name as my username a lot
of posters didn't even known who he was??? Just as I was getting
P.m.s from those who knew who he was and wanted to ask me questions. I was getting some from posters like who is Walter?
I know who Edwin Hawkins is.


If Walter was here he wouldn't like that his son is being treated
this way..& Jamie's right his Grandmother gave Walter the Money 2
start the church and record the 1st Love alive album..and another
thing people aren't aware of is Bishop Ernestine Cleveland Reems-Dick
erson Jamie & Tramaine Aunt and Jamie's Grandmother Lois sister is
mentoring Jamie and guiding him in his directions along with his late
father Bishop Walter Hawkins how too clean up the church.

I will try to keep this thread abreast of any new development..the
family member gave its blessing for me to keep the record straight...
I'm leaving 2 go take care of my sister in a few day b/c of a major-
surgery she's having but while I'm here I will tell what I can!!!!!!...
I think the best thing 2 come out of this is that we all feel that Bishop Walter Hawkins got it right with god..for him 2 tell
his son what he did.


And That is a blessing within itself!!!!:dance:
Sad it had 2 go down like this and tomorrow is his birthday.
Rest In Peace Bishop Walter L Hawkins~~~:rose:
 

veman96054

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So you know Tremaine is a bitter woman just by meeting her? and you don't know any of them, but you are able to discern whats going on? okay, let me wave in my options: veman is discerning by what a article is saying or Walter, who actually know them,sung with them, and to this day, still converse with them....I'll stick with Walter and I don't think Walter was trying to pressure Jamie into doing anything, but I know Walter will come in and give her take on it.
I met her a couple of times on a project I worked for.

She is a bitter. Just like a lot of divorced women her age. She was not nasty or rude. Just not very joyful.
 

veman96054

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LMAO!! Ok, the statement "however, the church was strongly gay" is just so wrong on so many levels that it's hysterical to me, lol. I just love it, "the church was strongly gay." No offense to the font that typed it. It's just funny.

For those that are familiar with this church, how did they deal with scripture that denounced homosexuality? Did they just never talk about it?

Ok, I just have to say this and I know it's not PC but, I'm just amazed at the gay "Pastors". I have a temper. It's a lot better than it was but I can still flick off quick. When people get on my nerves, I like to cuss them out and fight them. I can't stand when people tell me not to go off. There are others that feel the same way, they have bad tempers too. Can we start a church and just ignore anything that remotely mentions not cussing folks out, going upside their head and being easily offended? Is that how it works?
Pretty much.

Gays are all over churches. The Choir Directors and the choir are the stereotypical members.

When I hear a minster preach a lot on sexuality issues, it makes me wonder what his agenda is.

You have many generations in attendance at services. Homosexuality denouncing may not be appropriate around children.
 

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It's sad he gave his son this problem. He should have cleaned that church up during the time he was sick. He should have told them (church) the truth. This gay lifestyle is against God and here is what we are going to do to help get on the right track. Afterwards, he should have allowed his son to take over. I don't think anyone would have had a problem if it was handled appropriately.
I have a problem with inheriting a church.

Let the church choose the next Pastor.

Now how is Walter Hawkins gonna clean up a lifestyle he was living.
 

triselle

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I don't think Walter Hawkins could have cleaned it up but tell the truth about his lifestyle and denouce it.

I agree with you about family inheriting a church. Look at Tonex. He inhertited his fathers church. It went From Truth Apostolic Church to The Truth and now its some inclusion church now. I forgot the name of it. People walked out on him and as of lately, he stepped down as pastor.

I have a problem with inheriting a church.

Let the church choose the next Pastor.

Now how is Walter Hawkins gonna clean up a lifestyle he was living.
 

Freda Gatz

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I have a problem with inheriting a church.

Let the church choose the next Pastor.

Now how is Walter Hawkins gonna clean up a lifestyle he was living.

If he repented he cleaned it up, in God's eyesight, which is good enough for me. He will so the same for you and I also. What an amazing love, that anything we do, that because he died for our sins, if we ask and repent he wipes the slate clean.

How Amazing..a brand new mercy everyday.

Veman , if you asked for forgiveness last night and you awoke and opend your eyes this morning, God remembers no more of your sin, it is clean.

So if anything else give Walter Hawkins that much.

Now work on you, because I can't, I'm too busy trying to work on myself.
 

Walter Hawkins

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I met her a couple of times on a project I worked for.

She is a bitter. Just like a lot of divorced women her age. She was not nasty or rude. Just not very joyful.


Meeting her a couple times on a project you worked for. I don't
think is a fair assement 2 come to the conclusion she's just a biter
divorced woman...maybe she just didn't like you. I know Tramaine
personally she's a friend. Been knowning her since a child and worked
with her more than 2 times on a project. I worked & travel across the
country with the Hawkins....and I disagree with ur assement...Tramaine
has her ways like we all do but knowning her like I do..it sounds like
she didn't like you...As a gospel artist myself and not on the level of
Tramaine but sometimes I don't want to be bothered when people's
stop me...sometimes their are days I'm not jolly but do that mean I'm
bitter:no: You can't make no fair assement on a person on a couple
times meeting them or working with them?????? U say Tramaine is ((So))
bitter...she just a nonsense person and is about business!!! (deal with it)
it amazes me u can make all these assements and u said yourself u don't
know the people involved...when I know them personally including Obnixous
been knowing him since a child...we went to the same church and he's very messy!!:mad:


And another thing please speak the truth and only the truth.
Tramaine is happily married to a man name Tommy Richardson
they been married for almost 20 years now. So she not divorced
Now from Walter yes... but she remarried. Walter never remarried..
And 4 me 2 reveal what was said between Walter & his son it !!!!
Speaks volumes!!!(I know the family and don't have 2 wrongly decern from someone post.



@ CeCe thank U Sweetie 4 the support...I will address all the
others commets later.

 

Walter Hawkins

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I though Tramaine was married again. Right Walter?


Yes she is Metrolady its clear that Veman9605 don't know what she
talking about:mad: I just address that..As a gospel recording artist
myself who done been ripped off for royalties and concert money I know
perfectly well why Tramaine has the stance she does...and it has
nothing to do with being bitter & as her friend I resent that commet:disdain:
 

Walter Hawkins

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@ Veman I read a commet earlier 2day where u said to my post so what
The Hawkins payed for the church ?something to that effect..U must
of came back and realize u got it wrong after rereading my post...
and you cleaned the post up...............................:question:
I never said the Hawkins bought the church....I said Tramaine's
Mother Lois Davis (who I personally knew) Loaned Walter the money
for the first Love Alive Album and she assited with money for the
getting his first church (please get it right)

He loved his Mother in law dearly when she died Walter came
and excorted Tramaine 2 the funeral (and they were divorced)
then Him and Edwin sung her favorite song as a duet and brought
the house down......I said Lois Davis fronted the money , who
is Jamie Hawkins grandmother... not the Hawkins:struggle:
 

Walter Hawkins

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When Jamie and the rest of the Hawkins family were on TBN last August, I remember thinking, "can he really take over his father's church?" Ofcourse, they are big, heavy shoes to fill, but I was more concerned with the fact that he was mostly on the road with secular acts and didn't seem to have enough theological training.

After reading the mess that is going on there from OP's article, I'm wondering if he should've just left LC at the beginning and started a whole new church so he could've avoided all of this drama, but after reading Walter Hawkins' post, I now understand why he decided to pastor his father's church. If that's what his father wanted, one of his last wishes, the church should accept that. Unfortunately, they're not ready for change or being CHANGED just like Walter's song. All my life I've heard how homosexuality was rampant and acceptable at that church. I'm surprised some didn't know Walter and Edwin were/are gay, that's all I've ever heard from family members and church folk who followed them.

Just in case anyone missed it, this is when TBN did their tribute to Walter last August. I thought it was a well done tribute with the Hawkins family and Andre and Sandra Clark:

YouTube - Jamie Hawkins on TBN 8-24-10 Life of Walter Hawkins

YouTube - Lynette Hawkins Stephens on TBN 8 24 10 Life of Walter Hawkins Part 2 of 2

YouTube - Edwin Hawkins on TBN Interview about O Happy Day 8-24-10

YouTube - Edwin Hawkins on TBN 8-24-10 History of Love Center Church - Walter Hawkins

YouTube - Feddie & Daniel Hawkins On TBN on 8-24-10 Talking of life of Walter Hawkins

YouTube - Andrae & Sandra Crouch on TBN 8-24-10 Life of Walter Hawkins

[I@ blessedk:hug: your post was just beautiful you truly understand the
delemina Jamie is end....What child wouldn't want to respect their
late fathers wishes...regardless to how people feel about Walter he
is still Jamie & Trystan father. This I know for a fact b/c I went to
see him..when Walter was sick Jamie was their for his father at his
house trying to help take care of him....I agree that maybe Jamie
should of probably started another Love Center.........

But b/4 Walter Hawkins died they named the street his church sit
on after him...It called Walter Hawkins Way ...Jamie flew in 4 the
dedication it was all in the news...and I' know for a fact that Jamie
wanted to try and preseve the orginal Love Center Church especially
after they named the street after his father..he wanted 2 hold on
2 all that especially since his Dad had requested it...Yes those is some
heavy big shoes to fill...but that's why Tramaine who had left Love Center
when she left and later divorced Walter years ago...came back and joined
Love Center to help her son when her son b/came the pastor and she said
she didn't care who didn't like it (You GO Tramaine) that's a mother I'd
go to bat for my kids 2..especially if they trying to do something right.



Another thing me and various other friends discussed that are insiders
of what going on their...even though Walter & various member of the
Hawkins family carried on the homosexual life style...and please don;t
get it twisted b/c some of the Hawkins family womens are gay (not
Tramaine) I won't name who...but Jamie didn't condone his family life
style and spoke out against it....As a friend of Jamie I'm so proud of
him and what he tried to do.........



Much Love 2 U Mertolady:hug: on ur post I love what u said about god's
Love and how we have a brand new mercy everyday. Thank God
he forgives !!!! and people ani't the judge b/c some counldn't get
over what you done....they will remember the time, the day and
the hour:shout:....Walter has done what we all must do lay down
and die and face god one day....I'm like you I'm to buzy trying to
make sure I'm straight.....instead of worrying and condeming a man
who from all a counts I've gotten realised he was wrong and made
his peace with god!!!!...You were so right when u said if he repented
he cleaned his life up.?..Amen 2 that...Now lets keep Jamie lifted in
prayer b/c he's got a long ways 2 go & with prayer I believe my ...
my little brother will make it.
[/I]



@ Mochagurl ur commet about you glad I I don't go to your parish
made me:laugh: through my anger!!! I know you was just kidding but yea
girl I be :Eye_anim: and listening!!! But in all honesty the Hawkins are
long time friends & extended family(some of them) I know what I know from being on the inside and they confided in me...
.I would of never repeated what was said between Jamie & his father if the family members I talked to hadn't told me it was alright 2 put it out there(tell it) I was told and set the record
straight..especially when Obnoxious was only giving bits & pieces of the story.
 

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Lets be real. People went to that church cause the Hawkins were there.

Now that Walter gone, the church is gone.

That might be the case for most. However, Walter started that church at the beginning of his Gospel Career when he was not that popular. Walter ministered to a lot of people who were different, involved in the street life, people who were judged and looked down upon, he opened his heart and church for them. Its all on the internet. Maybe you should read about it. A lot of this went on before the mega churches and probably before some of you were born. Just know your facts.


I think Jamie will still be pastor, as it was prophesied, its just not time now.

When you operate on God's agenda, it will be big and better, and remember it is said,

"The latter shall be greater than the first".
 

veman96054

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If he repented he cleaned it up, in God's eyesight, which is good enough for me. He will so the same for you and I also. What an amazing love, that anything we do, that because he died for our sins, if we ask and repent he wipes the slate clean.

How Amazing..a brand new mercy everyday.

Veman , if you asked for forgiveness last night and you awoke and opend your eyes this morning, God remembers no more of your sin, it is clean.

So if anything else give Walter Hawkins that much.

Now work on you, because I can't, I'm too busy trying to work on myself.
That is not what I meant.

How is Walter expected to clean up a church of a lifestyle he been living all his adult life.

Did Walter leave his lover at the end of his life?

He gonna say do as I say - not as I do?

Pastors set the example and tone. If he was gay all his life, how is he gonna be credible to his congregation that they should get rid of the gays in the church.
 

veman96054

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Meeting her a couple times on a project you worked for. I don't
think is a fair assement 2 come to the conclusion she's just a biter
divorced woman...maybe she just didn't like you. I know Tramaine
personally she's a friend. Been knowning her since a child and worked
with her more than 2 times on a project. I worked & travel across the
country with the Hawkins....and I disagree with ur assement...Tramaine
has her ways like we all do but knowning her like I do..it sounds like
she didn't like you...As a gospel artist myself and not on the level of
Tramaine but sometimes I don't want to be bothered when people's
stop me...sometimes their are days I'm not jolly but do that mean I'm
bitter:no: You can't make no fair assement on a person on a couple
times meeting them or working with them?????? U say Tramaine is ((So))
bitter...she just a nonsense person and is about business!!! (deal with it)
it amazes me u can make all these assements and u said yourself u don't
know the people involved...when I know them personally including Obnixous
been knowing him since a child...we went to the same church and he's very messy!!:mad:


And another thing please speak the truth and only the truth.
Tramaine is happily married to a man name Tommy Richardson
they been married for almost 20 years now. So she not divorced
Now from Walter yes... but she remarried. Walter never remarried..
And 4 me 2 reveal what was said between Walter & his son it !!!!
Speaks volumes!!!(I know the family and don't have 2 wrongly decern from someone post.



@ CeCe thank U Sweetie 4 the support...I will address all the
others commets later.

She was cordial and had a heaviness to her personality 10 years ago when I interacted with her. TO me she was bitter. Nothing wrong with that.

Hey. Could have been the event she was doing. Could have been her flight. She was professional and not difficult. Just not happy.

You know her on a personal level and she never seemed that way to you. Great.

She is now married again and happy. Wonderful.

We all have our moments.
 

veman96054

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Yes she is Metrolady its clear that Veman9605 don't know what she
talking about:mad: I just address that..As a gospel recording artist
myself who done been ripped off for royalties and concert money I know
perfectly well why Tramaine has the stance she does...and it has
nothing to do with being bitter & as her friend I resent that commet:disdain:
Walter. I said she was professional and on point with her money.

That she should be commended for. That was a compliment.

Gospel is the worst to be a professional in because the people sponsoring the concerts are often not professional. They are usually hobbyist. Or worst. Looking to make money off of your work without paying you. That is true in all of entertainement.

She did what she was supposed to do. She did a great show. She respectfully and professionally made the producers deliver what they were supposed to.

However, at that time, and she did a series of concerts for that project, she had a bitterness about her.

Aint nothing wrong with being bitter.

Maybe we are interpreting the word differently/

How about melancholy. Is that better.
 

veman96054

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@ Veman I read a commet earlier 2day where u said to my post so what
The Hawkins payed for the church ?something to that effect..U must
of came back and realize u got it wrong after rereading my post...
and you cleaned the post up...............................:question:
I never said the Hawkins bought the church....I said Tramaine's
Mother Lois Davis (who I personally knew) Loaned Walter the money
for the first Love Alive Album and she assited with money for the
getting his first church (please get it right)

He loved his Mother in law dearly when she died Walter came
and excorted Tramaine 2 the funeral (and they were divorced)
then Him and Edwin sung her favorite song as a duet and brought
the house down......I said Lois Davis fronted the money , who
is Jamie Hawkins grandmother... not the Hawkins:struggle:
I interpret that to mean that Walter and his family put up the money to start the church. They paid for the church. The family, whether Hawkins or not, is the main reason that the church exists.

It costs money to have a church. Light bill has to be paid with cash.

However, the church should have evolved. Shouldn't the congregation and Board have something to say about who the next Pastor should be.

When people are dying, a lot of promises and requests are made in the emotion of the moment. A lot of times it is impossible, or not prudent, to keep those promises.

Hopefully, Jaime will do what is best for him.
 

veman96054

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[I@ blessedk:hug: your post was just beautiful you truly understand the
delemina Jamie is end....What child wouldn't want to respect their
late fathers wishes...regardless to how people feel about Walter he
is still Jamie & Trystan father. This I know for a fact b/c I went to
see him..when Walter was sick Jamie was their for his father at his
house trying to help take care of him....I agree that maybe Jamie
should of probably started another Love Center.........

But b/4 Walter Hawkins died they named the street his church sit
on after him...It called Walter Hawkins Way ...Jamie flew in 4 the
dedication it was all in the news...and I' know for a fact that Jamie
wanted to try and preseve the orginal Love Center Church especially
after they named the street after his father..he wanted 2 hold on
2 all that especially since his Dad had requested it...Yes those is some
heavy big shoes to fill...but that's why Tramaine who had left Love Center
when she left and later divorced Walter years ago...came back and joined
Love Center to help her son when her son b/came the pastor and she said
she didn't care who didn't like it (You GO Tramaine) that's a mother I'd
go to bat for my kids 2..especially if they trying to do something right.



Another thing me and various other friends discussed that are insiders
of what going on their...even though Walter & various member of the
Hawkins family carried on the homosexual life style...and please don;t
get it twisted b/c some of the Hawkins family womens are gay (not
Tramaine) I won't name who...but Jamie didn't condone his family life
style and spoke out against it....As a friend of Jamie I'm so proud of
him and what he tried to do.........



Much Love 2 U Mertolady:hug: on ur post I love what u said about god's
Love and how we have a brand new mercy everyday. Thank God
he forgives !!!! and people ani't the judge b/c some counldn't get
over what you done....they will remember the time, the day and
the hour:shout:....Walter has done what we all must do lay down
and die and face god one day....I'm like you I'm to buzy trying to
make sure I'm straight.....instead of worrying and condeming a man
who from all a counts I've gotten realised he was wrong and made
his peace with god!!!!...You were so right when u said if he repented
he cleaned his life up.?..Amen 2 that...Now lets keep Jamie lifted in
prayer b/c he's got a long ways 2 go & with prayer I believe my ...
my little brother will make it.
[/I]



@ Mochagurl ur commet about you glad I I don't go to your parish
made me:laugh: through my anger!!! I know you was just kidding but yea
girl I be :Eye_anim: and listening!!! But in all honesty the Hawkins are
long time friends & extended family(some of them) I know what I know from being on the inside and they confided in me...
.I would of never repeated what was said between Jamie & his father if the family members I talked to hadn't told me it was alright 2 put it out there(tell it) I was told and set the record
straight..especially when Obnoxious was only giving bits & pieces of the story.
Walter Hawkins is a major part of our Culture. His music is timeless and will live on. You seem to think that this discussion, in particular my posts, is bashing that. I am not.

It seems that the desire to keep and protect that legacy, maybe keeping Jaime from building his own legacy.

I just wonder if in all of the craziness that comes with Death. All the craziness that comes with church folk, did anyone ever stop to consider what Jaime wants. What is best for Jaime. It seems he abruptly changed his life to take over his father's church. He was not a minster previously, and had other goals.

Or what the congregation wants.

Walter's legacy and accomplishments can be preserved with a professional dedicated minister. It does not have to be someone associated with the family.
 

veman96054

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That might be the case for most. However, Walter started that church at the beginning of his Gospel Career when he was not that popular. Walter ministered to a lot of people who were different, involved in the street life, people who were judged and looked down upon, he opened his heart and church for them. Its all on the internet. Maybe you should read about it. A lot of this went on before the mega churches and probably before some of you were born. Just know your facts.


I think Jamie will still be pastor, as it was prophesied, its just not time now.

When you operate on God's agenda, it will be big and better, and remember it is said,

"The latter shall be greater than the first".
When Walter started that might be true.

Now we talking close to 40 years later.

There are some that attend cause of who Walter is. That is true in all churches. Some go for the minister, some go cause their family always went, some go cause it is convenient.

No one really know what God has prophesized. Cause we are not him.

Cause some one says God did it does not mean he did.

My point is Jamie lost his father. Someone who was important to him. The community lost an important leader, someone who helped many.

I believe I read someone at the funeral said, or prophesized, that Jamie will be the next pastor. That is unfair to Jamie.

Give Jamie space and let him decide what course his life will take.

And if he chooses to return to his previous life, don't use guilt to pressure him back.

If something goes wrong in Jamie's life, don't say it is because he ain't pastoring his father's church.

I am a mother of a son. And I am in entertainement. Not a star. But I earn a good living doing what I do. All my friends are in entertainment. My son sings in our shows. OK. It started when he was a baby cause I was to cheap to hire a baby sitter. I just took him with me. At 1 year old he got out of the stroller and started doing the show.

I say that to say. I go out of my way to make sure he finds something he loves to do and is passionate about.

I know well ministers who are in the business cause their family wanted them to. It don't turn out well.

Let Jamie, and his church, decide who to pastor.
 

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Walter. I said she was professional and on point with her money.

That she should be commended for. That was a compliment.

Gospel is the worst to be a professional in because the people sponsoring the concerts are often not professional. They are usually hobbyist. Or worst. Looking to make money off of your work without paying you. That is true in all of entertainement.

She did what she was supposed to do. She did a great show. She respectfully and professionally made the producers deliver what they were supposed to.

However, at that time, and she did a series of concerts for that project, she had a bitterness about her.

Aint nothing wrong with being bitter.

Maybe we are interpreting the word differently/

How about melancholy. Is that better.

I do know that Tramaine will not move unless she is paid, and I understand that, she charges 10,000 and up for a single appearance, and she wants her money before performing.

She could be bitter, Walter was the love of her life and she caught him with someone else, a man at that , I would be bitter too. SHe had children with this man, and probably looked away many times. That has to be hard to go through.

Jamie, is probably upset about his father's lifestyle and choices, but hey Walter Hawkins was still his dad at the end of the day.

SO I hope he does what is best for him, Veman, I did hear the prophecy and of course, we don't know if GOd literally said it himself, but still it was prophesied in his name. If its not true then the person who prophesies will have to answer to God, that's my belief.
 

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I do know that Tramaine will not move unless she is paid, and I understand that, she charges 10,000 and up for a single appearance, and she wants her money before performing.

She could be bitter, Walter was the love of her life and she caught him with someone else, a man at that , I would be bitter too. SHe had children with this man, and probably looked away many times. That has to be hard to go through.

Jamie, is probably upset about his father's lifestyle and choices, but hey Walter Hawkins was still his dad at the end of the day.

SO I hope he does what is best for him, Veman, I did hear the prophecy and of course, we don't know if GOd literally said it himself, but still it was prophesied in his name. If its not true then the person who prophesies will have to answer to God, that's my belief.
Tremaine is absolutely right to get her money up front. She requires a deposit. I do not remember if she requires a certified check or cash. If I was her, I would require those things. Gospel folks checks bounce.

James Cleveland personally counted his money before going on. I worked on a project with his manager. (Chile, he was a wonderful man, a fun man, and a QUEEN)

As for prophesying. This has been used to manipulate people for the ages. Remember, how Rasputin did it to the Czar and Russia.

Like you said Tremaine loved Walter and admired him. Walter did great things. His music is an important part of African American culture.

There are many people who have an interest in the church being run by Walter's son. However, Jamie may not have the temperament, or the passion to do it.

Saying it has been prophesied is manipulating him, it appears, into doing something he does not want to do.
 

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Another Californian here....

"Walter Hawkins speaks truth BTW! Love your post girl!

The Divorice was nasty at the time. I remember the local TV news being out
in the front of the church and Tramaine going off etc.

That was when the church was on Mac Author and High Street.

I was at those Love Alive Recordings too WH! I think one of them was at
Center of Hope.

Tramaine nearly had a nervous break down over it. But she and Walter reconciled and became friends again, partly for the kids sake.

She is Tramaine Richardson now. I think that they live in Sacramento
which is a little over an hour away. He's a school principal.

Jamie was embarrassed of Love Center because of all it was known for.

The church started out with some good intentions. They came from a very
holier then thou background and I think Walter hated the way a lot of people
were treated by the traditional holiness church and wanted to make a difference.

They claim Dad Cleveland ( Bishop EE Cleveland) supported them, but I wonder if he knew the
direction it would take, if he would have gone thru with it.

Dan Hawkins is not qualified either. He is so fried from drugs and Alcohol
abuse he can't even think straight. He was married to a white lady who
was into new age witch craft.
Ed is not a preacher and will tell you he has no interest in that.
I've been to his restaurant out in the Valley - the food is GREAT!
Lynette is the waitress :lashes:

NEWS FLASH:I understand that Jamie and Tramaine are opening a new church. They even have a name for it... Broadway something... Let me verify that one.

In my opinion, Love Center has to start over if it's ever going to change.
It is what it is. They have openly allowed any and everything to go for 35+years by the founder. I have personally seen men in drag there myself.
I have heard from many sources that he got it right with God before he passed. I am thankful for that.

I'll post more later...

.
 

veman96054

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Another Californian here....

"Walter Hawkins speaks truth BTW! Love your post girl!

The Divorice was nasty at the time. I remember the local TV news being out
in the front of the church and Tramaine going off etc.

That was when the church was on Mac Author and High Street.

I was at those Love Alive Recordings too WH! I think one of them was at
Center of Hope.

Tramaine nearly had a nervous break down over it. But she and Walter reconciled and became friends again, partly for the kids sake.

She is Tramaine Richardson now. I think that they live in Sacramento
which is a little over an hour away. He's a school principal.

Jamie was embarrassed of Love Center because of all it was known for.

The church started out with some good intentions. They came from a very
holier then thou background and I think Walter hated the way a lot of people
were treated by the traditional holiness church and wanted to make a difference.

They claim Dad Cleveland ( Bishop EE Cleveland) supported them, but I wonder if he knew the
direction it would take, if he would have gone thru with it.

Dan Hawkins is not qualified either. He is so fried from drugs and Alcohol
abuse he can't even think straight. He was married to a white lady who
was into new age witch craft.
Ed is not a preacher and will tell you he has no interest in that.
I've been to his restaurant out in the Valley - the food is GREAT!
Lynette is the waitress :lashes:

NEWS FLASH:I understand that Jamie and Tramaine are opening a new church. They even have a name for it... Broadway something... Let me verify that one.

In my opinion, Love Center has to start over if it's ever going to change.
It is what it is. They have openly allowed any and everything to go for 35+years by the founder. I have personally seen men in drag there myself.
I have heard from many sources that he got it right with God before he passed. I am thankful for that.

I'll post more later...

.
I question if the congregation of Love Center want the change.

And knowing that Jaime and his momma had issues with the gayness of the church, I wonder if the moves Jaime made was out of revenge for his childhood embarrassment.

Love Center will survive when the congregation finds a minster they want and can support.
 

veman96054

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Another Californian here....

"Walter Hawkins speaks truth BTW! Love your post girl!

The Divorice was nasty at the time. I remember the local TV news being out
in the front of the church and Tramaine going off etc.

That was when the church was on Mac Author and High Street.

I was at those Love Alive Recordings too WH! I think one of them was at
Center of Hope.

Tramaine nearly had a nervous break down over it. But she and Walter reconciled and became friends again, partly for the kids sake.

She is Tramaine Richardson now. I think that they live in Sacramento
which is a little over an hour away. He's a school principal.

Jamie was embarrassed of Love Center because of all it was known for.

The church started out with some good intentions. They came from a very
holier then thou background and I think Walter hated the way a lot of people
were treated by the traditional holiness church and wanted to make a difference.

They claim Dad Cleveland ( Bishop EE Cleveland) supported them, but I wonder if he knew the
direction it would take, if he would have gone thru with it.

Dan Hawkins is not qualified either. He is so fried from drugs and Alcohol
abuse he can't even think straight. He was married to a white lady who
was into new age witch craft.
Ed is not a preacher and will tell you he has no interest in that.
I've been to his restaurant out in the Valley - the food is GREAT!
Lynette is the waitress :lashes:

NEWS FLASH:I understand that Jamie and Tramaine are opening a new church. They even have a name for it... Broadway something... Let me verify that one.

In my opinion, Love Center has to start over if it's ever going to change.
It is what it is. They have openly allowed any and everything to go for 35+years by the founder. I have personally seen men in drag there myself.
I have heard from many sources that he got it right with God before he passed. I am thankful for that.

I'll post more later...

.
I question if the congregation of Love Center want the change.

And knowing that Jaime and his momma had issues with the gayness of the church, I wonder if the moves Jaime made was out of revenge for his childhood embarrassment.

Love Center will survive when the congregation finds a minster they want and can support.

Here is Tramaine's website.

Lady Tramaine Hawkins Ministry - Welcome
 

Healthy4Life

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Ya'll in here dropping both ice cold and hot tea on the "Hawkins Family Church Issues".... now, let me get to reading.
 

Walter Hawkins

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Another Californian here....

"Walter Hawkins speaks truth BTW! Love your post girl!

The Divorice was nasty at the time. I remember the local TV news being out
in the front of the church and Tramaine going off etc.

That was when the church was on Mac Author and High Street.

I was at those Love Alive Recordings too WH! I think one of them was at
Center of Hope.

Tramaine nearly had a nervous break down over it. But she and Walter reconciled and became friends again, partly for the kids sake.

She is Tramaine Richardson now. I think that they live in Sacramento
which is a little over an hour away. He's a school principal.

Jamie was embarrassed of Love Center because of all it was known for.

The church started out with some good intentions. They came from a very
holier then thou background and I think Walter hated the way a lot of people
were treated by the traditional holiness church and wanted to make a difference.

They claim Dad Cleveland ( Bishop EE Cleveland) supported them, but I wonder if he knew the
direction it would take, if he would have gone thru with it.

Dan Hawkins is not qualified either. He is so fried from drugs and Alcohol
abuse he can't even think straight. He was married to a white lady who
was into new age witch craft.
Ed is not a preacher and will tell you he has no interest in that.
I've been to his restaurant out in the Valley - the food is GREAT!
Lynette is the waitress :lashes:

NEWS FLASH:I understand that Jamie and Tramaine are opening a new church. They even have a name for it... Broadway something... Let me verify that one.

In my opinion, Love Center has to start over if it's ever going to change.
It is what it is. They have openly allowed any and everything to go for 35+years by the founder. I have personally seen men in drag there myself.
I have heard from many sources that he got it right with God before he passed. I am thankful for that.

I'll post more later...

.

Thanks sherrod

Thank you for ur kind commet sherrod...and your post is the absoulte truth.

It's nice to talk 2 another like Californian like me who was there like
me and can attest that all I'm saying is true.....U are right Tramaine
does lives in Sacramento with her husband Tommy!!!!.. I knew Dad -
Cleveland personally 2....and I no Dad Cleveland didn't know the church
would go that way b/c he preached against everything they were doing far as their lifestyles.



And you and Metrolady was right she was bitter during that time
when her and Walter seprated and divorced who wouldn;t be.I was
taking issues with Verm when she was saying she was still a bitter
divorced woman...etc....when Tramaine has moved on from that. She
had Walter to produce a couple of her records after they divorced.
Tramaine Live......(Walter Hawkins) produced that and sang with her on it...I could name a lot of other things they worked
together on.



Yes the Hawkins came came from GOGIC like me might of fact I was
a memeber (at one while) of the church they were all at Esphesian
COGIC Dad Cleveland Church...COGIC is strict and Walter & them
resented it....But Mother Mamie Hawkins brought them up in COGIC
(their mom)....... Sherrod u right about the churches they were at
one was on McAruthur I still remember the address :laugh:I think it was
8901 Mc Aruthur Blvd....that place use to be Bishop Ray Mack church (now thats an interesting topic as well).....




And you was right about Tramaine she was distraught and even
talked to the press when that happened between her and Walter
she did talk to the local news and she did a print article at that time
for the Oakland Tribune......YES one of the recording was at Center
Of Hope...Tramaine's Aunt's church Bishop Ernestine Cleveland Reems
Dickerson....Tramaine told me and others personally that after they
divorced when Walter would come around to see the kids she would
snap him up!!!....she said Walter would say why can't we be friends?


They worked it out...and as u said they had been reconciled. Thats
why I took issue of her being painted as a bitter woman, and bitter
divorced woman at that ...like her life had stopped. Tramaine is a
wife and a grandmother.....I wouldn't of been a true friend if I hadn';t
spoke out of the un truths that was being spoke about her....as I said
prior I've sung and did concerts with the Hawkins for many years. Walter
produced our 1st album...so of course I was going to come out swinging
especially @ some one just talking and don't them personally and not
telling the truth verses those of us who know them personally and know
the truth...I've traveled all across the country with them in concerts..
been in recordings with them......so I think I would know.....


:laugh: You right about Daniel I'll just leave that along....& Edwin
yes Love Center was way out their you could see some of everything
in their drag queens etc...And you right I know personally Walter got
it straight with god another reason why I was told 2 tell what I know
In this thread it's like even if you repented to god...You still not good enough.. Walter made his peace with god (god forgives) I know that for a fact personally b/c I'm on the inside.




Jamie had said sunday when he stepped down he was going to start another church...I'm praying for him wishing & him .. nothing but the best..Love Center the way it is been a eye sore
2 the city 4 for years ..So sometimes you do have 2 start a new .Verm saying that Jamie may not have the temperament or the passion... to pastor.. well look like that ani't true!!!!!!


 

veman96054

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Thanks sherrod

Thank you for ur kind commet sherrod...and your post is the absoulte truth.

It's nice to talk 2 another like Californian like me who was there like
me and can attest that all I'm saying is true.....U are right Tramaine
does lives in Sacramento with her husband Tommy!!!!.. I knew Dad -
Cleveland personally 2....and I no Dad Cleveland didn't know the church
would go that way b/c he preached against everything they were doing

far as their lifestyles.

And you and Metrolady was right she was bitter during that time
when her and Walter seprated and divorced who wouldn;t be.I was
taking issues with Verm when she was saying she was still a bitter
divorced woman...etc....when Tramaine had moved on from that. She
had Walter to produce a couple of her records after they divorced.
Tramaine Live......(Walter Hawkins) produced that and sang with
her in it....I could name a lot of other things they worked 2 gether on



Yes the Hawkins came came from GOGIC like me might of fact I was
a memeber (at one while) of the church they were all at Esphesian
COGIC Dad Cleveland Church...COGIC is strict and Walter & them
resented it....But Mother Mamie Hawkins brought them up in COGIC
(their mom)....... Sherrod u right about the churches they were at
one was on McArthur I still remember the address :laugh:I think it was
8901 Mc Aruthur Blvd....that place use to be Bishop Ray Mack church
(now that an interesting topic as well)...



And you was right about Tramaine she was distraught and even
talked to the press when that happened between her and Walter
she did talk to the local news and she did a print article at that time
for the Oakland Tribune......YES one of the recording was at Center
Of Hope...Tramaine's Aunt's church Bishop Ernestine Cleveland Reems
Dickerson....Tramaine told me and others personally that after they
divorced when Walter would come around to see the kids she would
snap him up!!!....she said Walter would say why can't we be friends?


They worked it out...and as u said they had been reconciled. Thats
why I took issue of her being painted as a bitter woman, and bitter
divorced woman at that ...like her life had stopped. Tramaine is a
wife and a grandmother.....I wouldn't of been a true friend if I hadn';t
spoke out of the un truths that was being spoke about her....as I said
prior I've sung and did concerts with the Hawkins for many years. Walter
produced our 1st album...so of course I was going to come out swinging
especially @ some one just talking and don't them personally and not
telling the truth verses those of us who know them personally and know
the truth...I've traveled all across the country with them in concerts..
been in recordings with them......so I think I would know.....


:laugh: You right about Daniel I'll just leave that along....& Edwin
yes Love Center was way out their you could see some of everything
in their drag queens etc...And you right I know personally Walter got
it straight with god another reason why I was told 2 tell what I know
In this thread it's like even if you repented to god...You still not good
enough...Walter made his peace with god (god forgives) I know that for a fact personally I'm on the inside.




Jamie had said sunday when he stepped down he was going to start another church...I'm praying for him wishing & him .. nothing but the best..Love Center the way it is been a eye sore
2 the y to the city 4 for years ..So sometimes you do have 2 start a new .Verm saying that Jamie may not have the temperament or the passion... to pastor.. well look like that ani't true!!!!!!


Walter. I was unclear about when I Tremaine did a project I was associated with. That was over 10 years ago. I cleared it up. All yall said she had some bitterness issues in the past. She moved on on and that is good.

Jamie starting another church is not an indicator of his having the temperament and passion for. There are lots of ministers in the profession that do not have that temperament or a passion for it.

The Cogic tradition of sons inheriting the churches, and following in father's, or family foot steps, is just not fair to the sons.

Walter Hawkins been dead for under a year. His son may not be ready to make such a life changing decision. I wonder on a sub conscious level if his momma, and others realize now would be the perfect time to get him into it.

A know a minister who's son got arrested in college for a Frat prank. It resulted in his being caught with stolen goods. His father a prominent minister would not bail him out until he promised to be a minister. He did. And you can tell, even after 25 years, he would rather do something else. Alcoholism, philandering and other pain was caused because his family pressured him into a occupation that is not hsi first choice.
 

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Thanks sherrod

Thank you for ur kind commet sherrod...and your post is the absoulte truth.

It's nice to talk 2 another like Californian like me who was there like
me and can attest that all I'm saying is true.....U are right Tramaine
does lives in Sacramento with her husband Tommy!!!!.. I knew Dad -
Cleveland personally 2....and I no Dad Cleveland didn't know the church
would go that way b/c he preached against everything they were doing far as their lifestyles.



And you and Metrolady was right she was bitter during that time
when her and Walter seprated and divorced who wouldn;t be.I was
taking issues with Verm when she was saying she was still a bitter
divorced woman...etc....when Tramaine has moved on from that. She
had Walter to produce a couple of her records after they divorced.
Tramaine Live......(Walter Hawkins) produced that and sang with her on it...I could name a lot of other things they worked
together on.



Yes the Hawkins came came from GOGIC like me might of fact I was
a memeber (at one while) of the church they were all at Esphesian
COGIC Dad Cleveland Church...COGIC is strict and Walter & them
resented it....But Mother Mamie Hawkins brought them up in COGIC
(their mom)....... Sherrod u right about the churches they were at
one was on McAruthur I still remember the address :laugh:I think it was
8901 Mc Aruthur Blvd....that place use to be Bishop Ray Mack church (now thats an interesting topic as well).....




And you was right about Tramaine she was distraught and even
talked to the press when that happened between her and Walter
she did talk to the local news and she did a print article at that time
for the Oakland Tribune......YES one of the recording was at Center
Of Hope...Tramaine's Aunt's church Bishop Ernestine Cleveland Reems
Dickerson....Tramaine told me and others personally that after they
divorced when Walter would come around to see the kids she would
snap him up!!!....she said Walter would say why can't we be friends?


They worked it out...and as u said they had been reconciled. Thats
why I took issue of her being painted as a bitter woman, and bitter
divorced woman at that ...like her life had stopped. Tramaine is a
wife and a grandmother.....I wouldn't of been a true friend if I hadn';t
spoke out of the un truths that was being spoke about her....as I said
prior I've sung and did concerts with the Hawkins for many years. Walter
produced our 1st album...so of course I was going to come out swinging
especially @ some one just talking and don't them personally and not
telling the truth verses those of us who know them personally and know
the truth...I've traveled all across the country with them in concerts..
been in recordings with them......so I think I would know.....


:laugh: You right about Daniel I'll just leave that along....& Edwin
yes Love Center was way out their you could see some of everything
in their drag queens etc...And you right I know personally Walter got
it straight with god another reason why I was told 2 tell what I know
In this thread it's like even if you repented to god...You still not good enough.. Walter made his peace with god (god forgives) I know that for a fact personally b/c I'm on the inside.




Jamie had said sunday when he stepped down he was going to start another church...I'm praying for him wishing & him .. nothing but the best..Love Center the way it is been a eye sore
2 the city 4 for years ..So sometimes you do have 2 start a new .Verm saying that Jamie may not have the temperament or the passion... to pastor.. well look like that ani't true!!!!!!



You are most welcome! I've been reading your "TEA" and said to myself "I got to get in on all the fun" :rotfl:

Like you said, Tramaine is not bitter. She is very serious and don't take no crap. She's been around the barn too many times and knows the business.

Okay yall, let Walt and I have some Bay area conversation for a minute :pdance:

About Ernestine, it's my understanding that she no longer married to "Dickerson"? I was told she has left him. I haven't been to her church in years but they tell me it's a shell of what it use to be since her son took it. I went to her "50 years of ministry" celebration at the Oracle. That turned out great (I thought).

Have you heard Lynette sing lately? GIRL, her voice is shot! You hear me??? She use to bring the house down but her voice is just horrible now! What happen? I heard it was all that smoking??? And what is she doing living out there in the valley now with all her sisters and Edwin? Why aint she with Reginald? Something up with that.

Speaking of Ray Mack, he is a mess too lol! I hear his wife is not well and is very sick again. His Sunday night service use to be jumpin' but they tell me it's really gone down.

So you think COGIC is still strict? I grew up when it was STRICT!.To me, they let anything go now. Look at Bishop Macklin :freaked-out: for example and all the rest of them Bishops living lose and on the down low. Really, what can they say about the Hawkins now?

And about Yvette, what did Mother Langston think of the direction her daughter took? I know she didn't raise her like that! It breaks my heart to see what has become of so many who grew up in the church. Yvette has a voice that is just out of this world! Can't nobody sing "Special Gift" like she can OK!!! They had that one singer take her place at Walter's memorial concert and she sounded a mess! I think her name was Kathy...? Some of those other singers were just butchering his songs! IMO, Donnie and Karen were the only ones who did the songs justice. The rest were down right AWFUL!

Back to the Love Center Split, I heard that it started when one of the ministers &/or board members was trying to pick up on the Keyboard player (can't think of his name) on the web. The kybd player saved all the info. and took it Jamie and he went OFF!! I hear Jamie also trying to put the choir director out too (R.W) and he's gone a lot traveling with secular artist.

I also wonder how this is going to effect the Music and Arts Seminar conference this year! Walter is gone and now Bishop Moales and now this split. This is going to be difficult IMO.

Speaking of Kenneth Moales, he said at the funeral " IF I BE A LYING PROPHET, GOD STRIKE ME or TAKE ME.. (or something to that effect) , and it wasn't but a few months later and he was GONE! I never knew what to make of that one!!


,

Please Keep us posted on what you hear!!!!!!
 

Walter Hawkins

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I sure will sherrod I should be in the bed now..I'm leaving later on this evening to go take care of one of my sisters who is having a major surgery monday so I'll be gone for a few weeks from here but let me address a few of ur questions all those I can't address now we will talk when I get back
(got to rush now) done took some sleep medicine and its staring 2 kick in ...Yea Girl its sad about Lynette Voice it's just aboout gone. They
talking about it all on youtube and other places I done gone....
Its the smoking and she got severe diabettes...Lynette almost died a few years ago she was so sick from it...she can't hit those high notes. and
seems to have trouble just trying to sing......(Its Sad) b/c that girl
could blow her behind off...I used to love to hear her sing...


But as Edwin taught us in a seminar worshop he said smoking is no good for a singer be it gospel or secular....... and diabette does things to the vocal cords. I remember in a seminar class Edwin expressed this to us and he
brought up his friend Dionne Warrick he told us how her voice had went
down several octatives b/c she smokes he said she use to be a beautiful
alto know she almost like a bass..He stress!!!!



Her and Reginold Steven is not together (some thing we will talk in p.m)
chille she moved in to Walter & Edwin house in Ripon (where Walter died
at) Carol and Feddie lives their 2.....Girl strange u said that about Kenneth
Moales b/c you know how church folks is ..they were saying thats why
he dropped dead b/c he wasn't right.....they said he was a lying prophet
so god took him out....I'm not gone lie...I was at Walter Funeral and when he
he said that then a few month later he dropped dead...I though about what
he had said......he had said he was going to come back and help Love Center
until it get on its feet...a lot of folks was appaled at that....they said
he ought to had been trying to get them homosexual and lesbians straight and saved.....



I must say I was really suprised that after Walter died CeCe Winans came to
Love Center to minster to the people...what could she possibly say
since she said she's against the lifestyle 2 (Blank-Stare)...Girl Mother
Langston Left Cogic and went joined her daughter Yvette church,,,Cogic
was out raged at her..for years since I was a child(b/c I know Yvette
and her mom) her mom was a devout well world renoun evangelsit and
she taught against gays etc....then she went b/4 she died jioned them
let her husband church where she was the 1st lady and joined her
daughter church which was full of homosexuals and lesbian....and Yvette
got up and bragged about it at the funeral...I got so much 2 say can't tell
it all but I will come back and put all this and more in the Gospel Tea thread


Yvette tells a story where she a was trying to convert her mom over to
the gospel of inclusion...she said they were talking one day...and she told
her Mom Ruth Langton god don't care if u gay/ She said her mom said
shut up yvette...yvette kept on...she gave her mother a bible scripture
mama langston said didn't I tell u to shut up!!! then Yvette said gays
lesbians etc all belong to god.....SHE SAID HER MOM HOLLERED OUT YVETTE
DIDN'T I TELL YOU TO SHUT UP GIRL..Yvette said why?????? Mama Ruth
Langston said b/c you are starting to make sense to me:eek: Honey she
packed up left COGIC AND joined her daughters church of inclusion..Cogic
went off her a lot of them wouldn't even come to her funeral..(so that what
yvette mom thought) yvette talked her into joining it....Yvette got her
voice from her mom ...they sound just alike...the last recording they
did b/4 MoTHER Langston died I couldn't tell one from the other.....


ANd Yvette can blow her behind off!!...You right Cogic is pretty weak now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the Bishop been caught in scandle and they doing everything under the
sun..thats why I stopped going to the convocation it was sad of the Bishop
who would have outside women their be in the hotel with them...while their
wives in another...one of them just died....God is cleaning house he's tired
of all these hypocritcal folks!!! especially leaders.

Yes the church of Bishop Ernestine C leveland Reems Dickerson is a
shell of what it use 2 be.....I use to go their..years ago but I had to
stop b./c her son was sleeping all through the church....Pastor Reems
would get up in the pulpit and say u silly women would you please stop sleeping with my son....stop buying him things trying to get him . This
was before he married his wife MARia..Then after he married her he
cheated on her....was getting ready to bring his other woman in the
church those he was still married....I said I'm out!!!!..I don't know every
thing....I didn't know Pastor Reems was seperated from Bro Dickerson
I will do some investagating!!!..(but her cheating son Brondon is the pastor
that why the church is down) I saw Pastor Reems recently and she was telling me babay come on back we need u Brondon needs u.....I was
like no way I can't sit up under that womanizer:no: I love Pastor Reems
but her son ani't right treat his wife like a dog...holler and scream at her
calls her crazy....UGH!!!



Girl the Seminar and arts chior is a shell of what it use to be so Walter
dying shouldn't affect it that much...Just like Love Center....the church
had been went down on the member ship....you could throw a ball
in their and hit nobody it was so empty...but then when Walter died
they came back just for the funeral...and thats when Edwin went off
and said no we don't need u.....

Girl me and you got so much 2 talk about I can't write it all now...
Bishop Apostle Ray Mack:twitcy: you say his wife Gerry ani;t doing well
didn't know that...but god don't like ugly....he married her after he had
went with this other woman for year..dump the other woman she had a
break down and she died in 2006 of a broken heart....that church use 2
rock thats another ghost town!!!!..He sleeping all through the choir
got babies glaore with several women at the church some he would ship
off to Arkansa to try and cover it.up....girl when I get back we will finish our bayarea talk............I'll be back in 2...-3 weeks....any other stuff I missed
we will chat when I come back........


Yes I will keep you all posted....I'll probably come back with a tea kettle
of tea.....my bestfriend was a memeber of love center 4 15 years till she
got tired of her husband and left...she not gay nor her husband...they did
have a few their who wasn't in that life style....she went b/c she meet
Edwin years ago and he invited her 2 come sing in the Love Center Choir
she sang traveled and recorded with them....She a nice little Tea pot.hehe
I'll be checking with her and my other sources!!!


I'll come back singing like a mocking bird with tea:twitcy: TTYL when I get back.......say a prayer for my sister she make it through the surgery...
I certainly would appreciate.... Thanks my Bayarea Sister..LOL
 

veman96054

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Hope your sister is well Walter.

COGIC had to change. A lot of the kids who grew up in it in their 40-50 got educated and could see through the lifestyle. Thus they had to relax a lot of dress and behavioral standards. Then here comes the internet and tabloids. Patterson family antics showed the hypocrisy in the denomination.
 

Walter Hawkins

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Thank You Verman:hug: I appeciate your words of comfort & kindness...(I'm waiting on my ride now 2 the airport)Say a Prayer for me Sis I have a safe flight.(I have nothing personally against
you)...SMILE.. I'll talk to you all when I get back.
 

sherrod

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Yes, have a safe trip and get some rest yourself!

Look forward to hearing from you when you return!

 

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