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“African Last Name” Spin Off- Mandé Last Name, Meaning and History

Killian_Ivory

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The first and last ones I can’t understand much. However, the others ones I can understand some.

Btw, I always thought Bambara and Bamanakan were the same thing but it seems like it’s not.

The Koyaga Jula is different from what I usually hear, at least the accent.

Are they a Mande group as well? They seem like it. Forgive me if you’ve already mentioned this.
Yeaa, the Mahouka are also another Malinke/Mandinka group. They are closer to the Koyaka, the very first video I posted.
I thought also that Bamana was like another name for Bambara, but from the video they sound different, they say in the description that Bamana is spoken in Ganadougou and Wassulu areas.
 

bebelala

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The first and last ones I can’t understand much. However, the others ones I can understand some.

Btw, I always thought Bambara and Bamanakan were the same thing but it seems like it’s not.

Bambara is the French/English name
Bamamakan - “bamana”(bambara) “kan” (language)

I didn’t listen to the video but there are different accents depending on the region and the ethnicity of the person who speak Bambara
 

bebelala

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The story of Sundiata Keita, part 2

So when Sundiata and his family exile, they were welcomed and granted asylum by a king called called Moussa Tounkara of the Mena Kingdom. Sundiata became a favourite of Tounkara and appointed him as the king's vicevory.

Over the years, the Mandinka kingdom that was lead by Soundiata's half brother, Dankaran, fell into the hands of the King of the Sussu/Soso, Soumaoro Kante.

Dankaran fled for his life, and the news travelled to Sundiata by some Mandinka elders which angered him. Sundiata organized a coalition of smaller kingdoms with a portion of Tounkara's army to take back the Mandinka kingdom.

The confrontation between Soundiata's army and Kante is called the battle of Kirina. The battle took place in the Koulikoro region (in modern day Mali) in about year 1235 .

According to some theories, Sundiata was able to defeat Kante with the help of his sister. His sister, Nana Triban, was forced to marry Kante and she discovered Kante's secret. His totem, his source of strength was a white cockspur which she stole and Kante was left with no strength (no protection).

Sundiata defeated Kante and Kante runs into the mountains of Koulikoro and is never seen or heard again.

This victory is what made Sundiata the Mande Mansa, recognized by all other kings in the region. Sundiata later conquered Kumbia, the Ghana empire former capital. The conquering continues over the years and the empire of Mali expand all over West Africa.

Sundiata dies around the year 1255 and his cause of death is unsure. Some say he drowned in the Sankarani river, others say he was shot by accident by in arrow. It was never revealed where his tomb is.



This is a Malian movie about Sundiata Keita's story. The storyline is actually a young boy that's curious about his history. Sundiata Keita's story is this movie ends when he exile. Also, in this movie, it shows the theory which I have heard before that Sundiata exile because Dankaran also stole's his griot.
 

Lady2023

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According to some theories, Sundiata was able to defeat Kante with the help of his sister. His sister, Nana Triban, was forced to marry Kante and she discovered Kante's secret. His totem, his source of strength was a white cockspur which she stole and Kante was left with no strength (no protection).

Ahh, the power of a woman. This is a common theme in many of these historical battles. She married him to get to know the source of his secret. He didn’t realize he was sleeping with the enemy. All other methods failed. They used the most effective tactic to bring a man down- a woman. That was the only way they could have defeated him. That was very a strategic plan. Why did Kante marry the half sister of his enemy-Dankaran? Not a smart move on his part unless he didn’t know they were related.

Sundiata defeated Kante and Kante runs into the mountains of Koulikoro and is never seen or heard again.

This victory is what made Sundiata the Mande Mansa, recognized by all other kings in the region. Sundiata later conquered Kumbia, the Ghana empire former capital. The conquering continues over the years and the empire of Mali expand all over West Africa.

So this is what expanded the Mande empire and spread us into many groups?

Anyway, I will check out that movie you shared. I’m able to understand some of their dialect. Thanks for sharing.
 

PalavaxSauce

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They say one of the reasons slavery (with Europeans) was able to infiltrate West Africa is because the Empire of Mail fell. I think we do better with centralized but fair rule amongst federalized ethnic territories -- like what the Malian emperors allowed.
 

bebelala

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Ahh, the power of a woman. This is a common theme in many of these historical battles. She married him to get to know the source of his secret. He didn’t realize he was sleeping with the enemy. All other methods failed. They used the most effective tactic to bring a man down- a woman. That was the only way they could have defeated him. That was very a strategic plan. Why did Kante marry the half sister of his enemy-Dankaran? Not a smart move on his part unless he didn’t know they were related.



So this is what expanded the Mande empire and spread us into many groups?

Anyway, I will check out that movie you shared. I’m able to understand some of their dialect. Thanks for sharing.

Kante was known to be a traditional great sorcerer and used it to take over other kingdoms have them submit to him. He also liked beautiful women like many powerful men. I don't know the exact details of his encounter with Dankaran and his half sister but I know Kante demanded that Dankaran submit and he choose to simply run.

The Mali empire expanded over time until it's fall in 1600.

When Sundiata became king, he established the Charter of Mande/"Kourakan Fouga" which lead to the concept of Sinagouya. This charter is considered the oldest charter in the world.
 

bebelala

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There is the charter of Mande that I copy paste from google


Social Organization

  • Article 1: The Great Mande Society is divided into sixteen clans of quiver carriers, five clans of marabouts, four groups of “nyamakalas” and one group of slaves. Each one has a specific activity and role.
  • Article 2: The “nyamakalas” must devote themselves to tell the truth to the chiefs, to be their counsellors and to defend by the speech the established rulers and the order upon the whole territory.
  • Article 3: The five clans of marabouts are our teachers and our educators in Islam. Everyone has to hold them in respect and consideration.
  • Article 4: The society is divided into age groups. Those born during a period of three years in succession belong to the same age-group. The members of the intermediary class between young and old people, should be invited to take part in the making of important decisions concerning the society.
  • Article 5: Everybody has a right to life and to the preservation of physical integrity. Accordingly, any attempt to deprive one’s fellow being of life is punished with death.
  • Article 6: To win the battle of prosperity, the general system of supervision has been established to fight against laziness and idleness.
  • Article 7: The sanankunya (joking relationship) and the tanamannyonya (blood pact) have been established among the Mandinka. Consequently, any contention that occurs among these groups should not degenerate the respect for one another being the rule. Between brothers-in-law and sisters-in-law, between grandparents and grandchildren, tolerance should be the principle.
  • Article 8: The Keïta family is nominated reigning family upon the empire.
  • Article 9: Children’s education behooves the entire society. The paternal authority in consequence falls to everyone.
  • Article 10: We should offer condolences mutually.
  • Article 11: When your wife or your child runs away, stop running after them in the neighbour’s house.
  • Article 12: The succession being patrilinear, never relinquish power to a son when one of his father’s brothers is still alive. Never relinquish power to a minor just because he has goods.
  • Article 13: Never offend the Nyaras (the talented).*i have no idea what this means*
  • Article 14: Never offend women, our mothers.
  • Article 15: Never beat a married woman before her husband has tried to correct the problem.
  • Article 16: Women, apart from their everyday occupations, should be associated with all our managements.
  • Article 17: Lies that have lived for 40 years should be considered like truths.
  • Article 18: We should respect the law of primogeniture.
  • Article 19: Any man has two parents-in-law: We have to hold them in respect and consideration.
  • Article 20: Do not ill treat the slaves. We are the master of the slave but not the bag he carries.
  • Article 21: Do not follow up with your constant attentions the wives of the chief, of the neighbor, of the marabout, of the priest, of the friend and of the partner.
  • Article 22: Vanity is the sign of weakness and humility the sign of greatness.
  • Article 23: Never betray one another. Respect your word of honor.
  • Article 24: In Manden, do not maltreat the foreigners.
  • Article 25: The ambassador does not risk anything in Manden.
  • Article 26: The bull confided to your care should not lead the cattle-pen.
  • Article 27: A girl can be given in marriage as soon as she is pubescent without age determination.
  • Article 28: A young man can marry at age 20.
  • Article 29: The dowry is fixed at 3 cows: one for the girl, two for the father and mother.
  • Article 30: In Mande, divorce is tolerated for one of the following reasons: the impotence of the husband, the madness of one of the spouses, the husband’s incapability of assuming the obligations due to the marriage. The divorce should occur out of the village. (The French version published in 1998 does not include this article, but splits article 34 into two, numbering the intervening articles differently).
  • Article 31: We should help those who are in need.
Of Goods
  • Article 32: There are five ways to acquire property: buying, donation, exchange, work and inheriting. Any other form without convincing testimony is doubtful.
  • Article 33: Any object found without a known owner becomes common property only after four years.
  • Article 34: The fourth heifer born is the property of the guardian of the heifer. One egg out of four is the property of the guardian of the laying hen.
  • Article 35: One bovine should be exchanged for four sheep or four goats.
  • Article 36: To satisfy one’s hunger is not robbery if you don’t take away anything in your bag or your pocket.
Preservation of Nature
  • Article 37: Fakombè is nominated chief of hunters.
  • Article 38: Before setting fire to the bush, don’t look down at the ground, raise your head in the direction of the top of the trees to see whether they bear fruits or flowers.
  • Article 39: Domestic animals should be tied during cultivation and freed after the harvest. The dog, the cat, the duck and the poultry are not bound by the measure.
Final Disposals
  • Article 40: Respect kinship, marriage and the neighborhood.
  • Article 41: You can kill the enemy, but not humiliate him.
  • Article 42: In big assemblies, be satisfied with your lawful representatives.
  • Article 43: Balla Fassèkè Kouyaté is nominated chief of ceremonies and main mediator in Manden. He is allowed to joke with all groups, in priority with the royal family.
  • Article 44: All those who will transgress these rules will be punished. Everyone is bound to make effective their implementation.
 

Lady2023

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Article 11: When your wife or your child runs away, stop running after them in the neighbour’s house.

Do you know what this means? It doesn’t sound like this one is meant to be taken literally.

Article 16: Women, apart from their everyday occupations, should be associated with all our managements.

Love this one. I always knew Mande society gave a lot of power to women.
 

bebelala

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They say one of the reasons slavery (with Europeans) was able to infiltrate West Africa is because the Empire of Mail fell. I think we do better with centralized but fair rule amongst federalized ethnic territories -- like what the Malian emperors allowed.

Maybe.
I am not a historian or even a politician. But, the populations the malian empire was also very small. In 1960, the malian population was under 6 million. Now in 2020, Mali is at 18/20 million people.
I think it's easier to reign over small populations. It's also worth noting that slavery and the selling of slaves outside the empire was practiced in the Malian empire.
 

bebelala

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Do you know what this means? It doesn’t sound like this one is meant to be taken literally.



Love this one. I always knew Mande society gave a lot of power to women.

I really don't know. I guess it means if you child or wife runs away they have their reasons ?

Some of these are really random.

But seeing this charter is interesting. There seems to be a sense of respect for the sanity of human life.
 

bebelala

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These are some Mande songs that I love. They are actually are from Guinea.



She sings about how sad she is about getting married because she is leaving her parents to join another family (her husband and in laws)

This song was recorded in the 80's



This a song about grief and death


The singer here is singing to her husband and praising her family members
 

PalavaxSauce

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Maybe.
I am not a historian or even a politician. But, the populations the malian empire was also very small. In 1960, the malian population was under 6 million. Now in 2020, Mali is at 18/20 million people.
I think it's easier to reign over small populations. It's also worth noting that slavery and the selling of slaves outside the empire was practiced in the Malian empire.

true but Africa and the world was less populated at that time. My figures may be wrong but I think I remember reading 12 million Africans left the coast of West Africa, so that's 2 Mail empires worth of people we lost at a time when we didn't have the population we have now.

I know our indentured servant type of slavery was practiced, but the type of chattel slavery that ran rampant between smaller kingdoms fighting solely for POW's/slaves, wouldn't be as rife as the Malian emperors had enough martial prowess, intelligence, technology, and infrastructure to keep the smaller King’s and kingdoms in their sphere in check.
 

Lady2023

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This is The Gambian and Sierra Leonean versions of Mandinka. Can you guys understand some of these dialects?

@SnakeWithHands

@Killian_Ivory Sis, I don’t remember if you said your were Mandinka.

@PalavaxSauce Do you speak Mandinka sis?

Gambia:



Sierra Leone.

I speak the Gambian dialect of Mandinka but I was able to understand a lot of the Sierra Leonean dialect?
 

bebelala

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This is The Gambian and Sierra Leonean versions of Mandinka. Can you guys understand some of these dialects?

@SnakeWithHands

@Killian_Ivory Sis, I don’t remember if you said your were Mandinka.

@PalavaxSauce Do you speak Mandinka sis?

Gambia:



Sierra Leone.

I speak the Gambian dialect of Mandinka but I was able to understand a lot of the Sierra Leonean dialect?


I understood the Sierra Leonean more than I understood the Gambian. I am still trying to find a video on Malian Mandinka.
 

bebelala

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@Lady2023
Okay I finally found one.

It's a "comedy" (not that funny) video, the guy in dark colors is the one who speaks Maninkan

 

Killian_Ivory

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This is The Gambian and Sierra Leonean versions of Mandinka. Can you guys understand some of these dialects?

@SnakeWithHands

@Killian_Ivory Sis, I don’t remember if you said your were Mandinka.

@PalavaxSauce Do you speak Mandinka sis?

Gambia:



Sierra Leone.

I speak the Gambian dialect of Mandinka but I was able to understand a lot of the Sierra Leonean dialect?


No sis, I am not Mandinka, I am Akan.
 

bebelala

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I’m not sure if it’s his accent, but it sounds like he’s speaking Bambara too.
Lol. Exactly, Mali is so bamanaphone that mandinka just get buried. But I know that journal in Mandinka exist but i can’t find it anywhere on Youtube.
 

Lady2023

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Lol. Exactly, Mali is so bamanaphone that mandinka just get buried. But I know that journal in Mandinka exist but i can’t find it anywhere on Youtube.

Bambara and Mandinka are related languages so I can see how easy it could be for the Mandinka to just adopt Bambara. It’s nice that Mali has a national language that most of the ethnic groups speak. We have a hard time doing that in Gambia. So if you speak Bambara, you can communicate with most Malians right? Regardless of their ethnic group?
 

bebelala

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Bambara and Mandinka are related languages so I can see how easy it could be for the Mandinka to just adopt Bambara. It’s nice that Mali has a national language that most of the ethnic groups speak. We have a hard time doing that in Gambia. So if you speak Bambara, you can communicate with most Malians right? Regardless of their ethnic group?

In Bamako and the diaspora pretty much yes. Malians always speak Bambara with each other. Now there are some non Bambara remote villages in Mali that don't speak Bambara at all.
 

PalavaxSauce

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I knew about Cheick Anta Diop and Amadou Ba, but never heard of Soumano before. I noticed that in IVC, Malinke can often trace back their ancestry to many generation far back, do you happen to also know your ancestors pass your great grand parents generation? The history of the Mandingue is well preserved and known, but the history of the Kru for example remain somewhat a mystery. They taught us in school that the Kru come from Liberia, but I have interacted with a few Liberians before they said their Kru population actually comes from IVC. In villages, some of the elders believe that their place of origin is the coastline of IVC and I prefer to stick to their version.

I don't think the patronym Ouattara is of Mossi origin, I assumed it was of Malinke origin and that the Senoufo are now carrying the name, just like other mandingue names such as Kone and Toure for example which are very popular among the Senoufo. But as you confirmed that it is not, i did a bit of research and some sources say it is maybe of Senoufo origin. You can check out this link for more info, they speak about the history of the name:


Also the link below speaks of the origin of the name Savane (Sawane/ Sawanneh). It is an Ivorian page about the Denguele, a district located in Northwest IVC (see the map below). Like you said, they say Sy is of fulani origin, but Savane is of Soninke origin.

.
800px-C%C3%B4te_d%27Ivoire_-_District_Dengu%C3%A9l%C3%A9.svg.png


My cousin is half Kru apparently they were in Liberia (the Krahn who are related) and on the coast -- most likely IVC too -- before the Mande tribes arrived. I even read somewhere that they were in northern ivory coast first and the Mande groups migrating outwards from Mali pushed them to where they are now. They are sea people and used to work with the europeans on the coast during the slave trade apparently.
 

bebelala

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I made a seperate thread for Malian music since I don't want this entire thread to be fill with music.

Malian music thread

I'll add more meanings of last names later.
 

Farashalady

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Random.. but I noticed a lot of first names in west Africa end in ata.

ex.) Miatta, Katta, Aminatta etc. anybody know where the ata comes from, it’s meaning?
 

bebelala

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Random.. but I noticed a lot of first names in west Africa end in ata.

ex.) Miatta, Katta, Aminatta etc. anybody know where the ata comes from, it’s meaning?

I know Aminata is from Amina. Names like Aissata, Aichatou, Fatoumata are really africanized Arabic names.
 

Farashalady

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I know Aminata is from Amina. Names like Aissata, Aichatou, Fatoumata are really africanized Arabic names.
So it comes from Islamic influence? I was wondering if the ata part was African or Islamic. I know Amina, Fatima etc are Islamic. But what about the ata part?
 

bebelala

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So it comes from Islamic influence? I was wondering if the ata part was African or Islamic. I know Amina, Fatima etc are Islamic. But what about the ata part?

Honestly I don't know. I am assuming that's how africans at the time pronounce Arabic names. Even Mahamadou/Mamadou is supposed to be Mohamed, Soumaila is Ismaeil, Youssoufou is Yusef, Daouda is Dawhud

Also, Bintou comes from Bint, Oumou is from Umm

In Mali, in Bambara culture, before converting to Islam, names were often given based on the order or day you are born. For example, the first son will be named N'Tji, second son, Zan, third son, N'golo.
 

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In Mali, in Bambara culture, before converting to Islam, names were often given based on the order or day you are born. For example, the first son will be named N'Tji, second son, Zan, third son, N'golo.

Now I know where N’golo Kante’s name comes from. I like it when Africans stick to our cultural names instead of Arabic and European names.
 

Lady2023

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Random.. but I noticed a lot of first names in west Africa end in ata.

ex.) Miatta, Katta, Aminatta etc. anybody know where the ata comes from, it’s meaning?

As @SnakeWithHands said, it’s pretty much due to the Africanization of Arabic names.

Examples:

Fatoumata= Fatima
Aminata= Amina (already mentioned)
Binta= Bint. In Arabic, bint means daughter.
 

Lady2023

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Honestly I don't know. I am assuming that's how africans at the time pronounce Arabic names. Even Mahamadou/Mamadou is supposed to be Mohamed, Soumaila is Ismaeil, Youssoufou is Yusef, Daouda is Dawhud

Also, Bintou comes from Bint, Oumou is from Umm

Yep, spot on. Good examples
 

bebelala

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Now I know where N’golo Kante’s name comes from. I like it when Africans stick to our cultural names instead of Arabic and European names.

Our parent's generation and above them were given those Arabic ish names to show their muslim identity but the name giving tradition changed. We are now giving names after elders (parents, grandfathers, older siblings, etc) so it's almost like those names are even more widespread than before.

Some traditional names are still around tho. Names like Djeneba, Korotoumou, Coumba, Djelika, Sadio, Modibo, Gaoussou, Touramanka, Toumani are quite common.
 

Farashalady

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Our parent's generation and above them were given those Arabic ish names to show their muslim identity but the name giving tradition changed. We are now giving names after elders (parents, grandfathers, older siblings, etc) so it's almost like those names are even more widespread than before.

Some traditional names are still around tho. Names like Djeneba, Korotoumou, Coumba, Djelika, Sadio, Modibo, Gaoussou, Touramanka, Toumani are quite common.
Interesting. Modibo, Kumba, and jeneba are common in Sierra Leone as wellll
 

Lady2023

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Our parent's generation and above them were given those Arabic ish names to show their muslim identity but the name giving tradition changed. We are now giving names after elders (parents, grandfathers, older siblings, etc) so it's almost like those names are even more widespread than before.

Some traditional names are still around tho. Names like Djeneba, Korotoumou, Coumba, Djelika, Sadio, Modibo, Gaoussou, Touramanka, Toumani are quite common.

Yes, the Arabic names get recycled but as you said the cultural names are still quite common. However, Djeneba is the African version of Zainab an Arabic name. Anyway, you have Sadio Mane who is Mandinka from Senegal, Toumani Diabate and his son Sidiki Diabate from Mali, and Modibo Keita, the first president of Mali. That’s just to name a few public figures with Mande names.
 

bebelala

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Yes, the Arabic names get recycled but as you said the cultural names are still quite common. However, Djeneba is the African version of Zainab an Arabic name. Anyway, you have Sadio Mane who is Mandinka from Senegal, Toumani Diabate and his son Sidiki Diabate from Mali, and Modibo Keita, the first president of Mali. That’s just to name a few public figures with Mande names.

Really, I thought Zeneibou = Zainab
Djene= spirits, the supernatural
Ba = big, great or mother

In Mali, Sadio is mainly female name. There is a griot called Sadio Kouyate.
 

Lady2023

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Really, I thought Zeneibou = Zainab
Djene= spirits, the supernatural
Ba = big, great or mother

In Mali, Sadio is mainly female name. There is a griot called Sadio Kouyate.

Oh ok. I might have gotten it mixed up with Gambia where “Jainaba” is from Zainab. I thought “Djeneba” was the French spelling. Never mind lol..

Btw, Sadio is unisex in Gambia but we spell in “Sarjo”.
 

bebelala

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Oh ok. I might have gotten it mixed up with Gambia there “Jainaba” is from Zainab. I thought “Djeneba” was the French spelling. Never mind lol..

Btw, Sadio is unisex in Gambia but we spell in “Sarjo”.

Yes Djeneba is the French spelling. It could really well be an arabic ish name.

There are some confusion when it comes to the origins of some names. For example, Fatou is very widespread. Some say it's from Fatima, but there are historians that claims that the name has even around even before the Islamization.
 

cubum

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Our parent's generation and above them were given those Arabic ish names to show their muslim identity but the name giving tradition changed. We are now giving names after elders (parents, grandfathers, older siblings, etc) so it's almost like those names are even more widespread than before.

Some traditional names are still around tho. Names like Djeneba, Korotoumou, Coumba, Djelika, Sadio, Modibo, Gaoussou, Touramanka, Toumani are quite common.

What’s really interesting is how the same thing also is occurring with a lot of african chrisians in west africa. My mom and my dad both had biblical names but they gave me and my siblings igbo names and I saw that to be common in our church as well with children given names in remembrance of elders.
 

bebelala

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What’s really interesting is how the same thing also is occurring with a lot of african chrisians in west africa. My mom and my dad both had biblical names but they gave me and my siblings igbo names and I saw that to be common in our church as well with children given names in remembrance of elders.

Are your parents and elders so eager to have a child name after them ? In Mali, it's almost obligatory now to give your kids the names of your parents. Elders want to have a "togoman" (someone with the same name or and named after them) so bad.
 

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