Anyone Ever Heard of Pastor Gino Jennings?

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I hate to bump up such an old thread, but I was wondering did anybody have anything more to add about Gino Jennings? I have watched his sermons online and on tv, and I want to know how others feel about him. He has a church on Frankford Avenue, and I was thinking about attending a service, but I'm hesitant for some reason. Anybody want to share their opinions/experiences?

Hi Damm-

I have some info that you might be interested in. Tony Smith claims that he has received letters from Gino's members. And then Gino attacks Tony. They go back and forth.

Here's the info:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMAYfnlUP1c"]YouTube - Gino Jennings Adultery EXPOSED[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9AEGF8Uyz8"]YouTube - Pastor Gino Jennings: Tony Smith No Show[/ame]
 
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-He teaches that you MUST speak in tounges in order to recieve the Holy Ghost. Therefore if you are baptized without the initial evidence of speaking in tongues then you are going to hell no matter how much your life bears the fruit of Christ. This teaching is NO WHERE found in scripture. Let me repeat NO WHERE!

That can be faked. Hiii kooooo mmmaaannnytwb

Just typed in tongues

-He doesn't believe that he can be voted out of his position since he is a God-sent Apostle. This has me leery because, it implies that there's no accountability as far as lifestyle or doctrine goes. So its no wonder why his church would be percieved as a cult.

They falling for that one. Of course, folks will vote with thier feet and put nothing in the collection plate

-He preaches against greedy false prophets (and rightfully so), yet he does the exact samething as the false teachers when he misinterpret the scriptures to coerse the followers to tithe. I've heard quite a few sermons where he did a masterful job in rightly dividing the Old Covenant from the New Covenant. To where he concludes that we are no longer under the Law of Moses, rather we are under the Grace of Christ. So how then all of a sudden he conveniently cherry picks Malachi chapter 3 (Old testament) to guilt ride the people into giving?

What better way to keep them from calling you a PIMP. Point out the bad deeds that are worst then yours. Amateur ploy.

-He's also overzealous when it comes to modest apparel. As i've said before, the Bible is explicit when it comes to shamefacedness, humility, and modesty. Don't misunderstand me....However, Gino preaches that if a woman is found with (make up, ear rings, sleeveless blouses, no headcovering..etc) that she's going to hell. Also men are forbidden from wearing shorts or Afros. Likewise, these are salvific issues.

He is controlling them. Today extreme dress, tomorrow your occupation, and what you do for a living.

These are things that he has stated in multiple sermons. I have DVDs and multitudes of saved sermons on my old computer. So, i'm certain of what i'm saying. I hope that he has altered his teachings regarding these issues, but the likelihood of that isn't positive.

I hope this helps...

The man is crazy and is running a cult.
:shock:
 
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Ok - I am joining this conversation late but want to throw in my two cents...

I am not a member of First Church (Pastor Jennings' church) but I have watched him on TV for years. Here's my take on him...

1. He preaches the truth straight from the scriptures

2. Jennings absolutely does not hide from Oneness teaching. It is front and center of many of his teachings. I will address in a minute the falsehood of trinity. Whoever believes in trinity and does not repent is in jeopardy. I urge you to beware of traditions of men.

3. Jennings does quote from the "Apocrypha." The Revelation scripture mentioned in this thread pertains to Revelation. There is other scriptural reference warning of adding to or subtracting from the word... Deut 12:30-32; Deut 4:2; Gal 3:15; Prov 30:6. Please explain to me how these scriptures eliminate the "Apocrypha." Please note that "Apocrypha" is a term given to these books by a various councils of men. Most, if not all, of these books were written between 300 BC and 70 AD. These books were INCLUDED in the Septuagint and were then EXCLUDED by Saint Athanasius in 367 AD. So, who edited the word?

Personally, I do not consider the Apocrypha law, but various books are referenced in the canon (Jasher referenced in Joshua and Judges. Enoch is also referenced). As long as Apocryphal scripture does not contradict canon then it is fine to teach as it was ancient writings. Remember, many Apocryphal books were exlcuded solely because the content didn't add anything new that wasn't already covered in the canon. That is an important distinction from it being unholy. Are some of the books false? Sure. But, just like anything, the bad apples should not ruin the bunch.

4. Jennings preaches too angrily for my taste and has too many vendettas against other preachers. These are things Jennings certainly needs to repent about, pray on and get over. He gets fired up over trivial controversies when he should be preaching with love in all things. No man is perfect and this, above all, is Jennings' main problem. He has always been this way. Maybe it's because of the death threats and personal attacks. A defensive response is certainly understandable but he crosses the line sometimes. Tough love? Maybe. Just not my style. He's certainly not wrong with his message. I just have a different perspective on message delivery.

5. Jennings is somewhat legalistic. His church rules are strict. That does not make him a Nation of Islam imitator or wannabe. He preaches holiness. For someone to say Jennings has NOI tendencies shows that that person hasn't actually watched Jennings long enough to make an intelligent statement. How can someone profess Oneness one second and then be NOI the next? Oneness glorifies and exalts Jesus; NOI minimizes Him.

Regardless, Jennings has church rules that you may or may not like. Don't like them? Then don't sit with him. It's that simple. The fact is that he teaches the truth of the word. All of the other dress code stuff is not salvational. Oneness, baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost is salvational. Get that wrong and I fear you get it all wrong.

6. Jennings does not believe women are called to preach and that has factual basis in scripture. It is clearly written...

First, the backdrop (Galatians 3:28) -- women are clearly identified separately from men. Therefore there is no need for different versions of the scripture to "fix" any gender bias. Do this at your peril and is another example of doctrine of men. Fit the scripture into your box instead of fit yourself into the scriptures box. Fools.

Now for the easy stuff.

1 Tim 2:12 -- "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Titus 1:6 -- speaking of qualifications for elders "...the husband of one wife"

There's more but you get the point. No women shall have power over the man. God is the head of man and man is head of the woman. Read 1 Cor 11.

7. Marriage and Divorce -- this is also clearly written. You are committing adultery if you divorce and have sex with another person, even if that person is another husband or wife. You are permitted to divorce if your spouse is an unbeliever and wants to leave. As a believer, you are not permitted to leave an unbelieving spouse (except if the spouse has committed adultery) as you are that spouse's chance at redemption. If you are divorced you are not to remarry unless the first spouse dies.

As suggested earlier, if you have been divorced prior to you eyes being open to this understanding, you have two choices... reconcile or abstinence. End of story. It is clearly written. Please do not change the scripture to fit your lifestyle or your beliefs. You must change your beliefs to fit the scripture. Otherwise, you are in jeopardy. I am not the judge but you make the choices for yourself and roll the dice as you will, so to speak. Hope it doesn't come up snake eyes for you.

Read Matthew 19:1-12, Matthew 5:31-32 and 1 Cor 7:15

8. Back to Oneness... GaryV in this board has some sort of grudge against Jennings that is pretty apparent. I don't care about that but is that grudge getting in the way of truth? Is GaryV sending a truthful message on this board or are your souls on his head? There is not a single scripture that professes trinity. Please don't quote something that requires some sort of interpretation. Also, do not cite words with ancient meanings and plurality. This is sinful and screams of doctrines of men.

Remember...

"If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep all his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, nor is it far off" (Deut 30:10-11).

In other words, the word of God is written for our understanding. We can twist it and massage it to fit into our pre-conceived notions. That is what men do. Is that holy? Go back to the scripture about changing God's word above. Now it applies.

Please provide something as simple as this...

"I am my Father are one" (John 10:30)
"And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me" (John 12:45)
"Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58)
Read John 1:1-2 and then John 1:14

Is anything more clear? Isn't John writing of Oneness repeatedly himself? Twist the words you want to twist but I urge you to simply read the words on the page.

Why was the Comforter not to come until Jesus' ascension? Because, as He told the apostles, there was no need for it when He was there with them. Just like fasting. Read all the scriptures, not just bits and pieces and the meaning becomes clear. As written and cited above -- the scriptures are written for understanding. There is nothing hidden.

Oh, and the "us" in Genesis 1:26... does anyone know what that means? God mentions repeatedly that not all things are meant for our understanding. But is it not just as easily possible that God is speaking to the angels? It has been suggested that he is speaking to Jesus therefore proving the Trinity. I say that it is just as possible that he is speaking to his angels who are also images of men (as it is written). Look at Job 38:4-7. "The sons of God shouted for joy" when the foundations of the earth were laid. Colossians 1:16-17 states that all things both in heaven and earth were created by God. Therefore, God had to have created the angels. Did he create them when he created the heavens in Genesis? Is that feasible? Sure it is. The reality is that none of us know for sure unless you claim to have heard it from the Lord directly. If that's not the case, then let's move on from that one and go to scripture that is clearly written for our understanding. I have provided a handful of verses that prove Oneness doctrine. I can easily provide dozens more if you would like.

Lastly...

As I said, I am no judge. I do not have anything against anyone with a different opinion than me. If I am wrong then I seek understanding and will immediately repent and admit my mistakes. I just read the words on the page. I do not follow any one preacher, church, university man. I follow the scripture... 100%. I am not successful in living by the scripture 100% of the time but I believe the scripture is 100% truth. No twisting and interpretation or Hebrew lookups are necessary. This behavior is modern day Pharisee-type action.

Read the word. follow the truth, repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins so that you may receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38 is the plan of salvation.

God bless you all and may your understanding be opened. We shall pray for wisdom of truth, awareness of our thoughts and actions and strength to be holy.\
 
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Two more things...

1. Black Machismo asks if Jesus can sit on the right hand of himself. The right hand is power. So the answer to his question is, "Yes"

2. Machismo also states that nowhere is it written that one must speak in tongues. Read Acts 2:38 and then read Acts 10:44-48. Acts 2:38 speaks of the plan of salvation and Acts 10:44-48 shows what the gift of the Holy Spirit entails... that would be speaking in tongues.

Also, read Mark 16:16-17. Nevermind, I will type it here. These are the words of Lord Jesus... "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues."

Speaking in tongues is a long topic by itself as it means gift of Holy Spirit on one hand and speaking another language on the other. This is why reading all the scripture is important so that you get full context.

Similar to making judgements on a conversation when you walk in and hear just a piece of it. It's impossible to get the correct meaning of any topic if you don't know all the facts. So, I encourage everyone to read the full scripture, not just a verse here and there. This is the trick of false prophets.

God bless us all. May our understanding be opened through honest reading of His word. May we seek Him with all our hearts, minds and souls.
 
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Still not done...

Those that follow the Trinity, I pray that you are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and not in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

What is the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

What is the purpose of baptism?

What did Jesus die for?

What did the people that heard Jesus say those words in Matthew 28:19 do? What did Peter do? How did he baptize? What did he tell the people on the day of Pentecost? What did his words and actions show? He was there with Jesus -- a first person account. Should we not listen to him? Wouldn't he know what Jesus meant with the Great Commission? Wasn't the Great Commission spoken directly to Peter?

Are you saying that your "interpretation" of Jesus' words is more holy than Peter's? Or Paul's?

Please don't change the scriptures to fit your bible school doctrine. Don't change the scriptures to fit what you've learned from men. Change yourself to fit the Word. Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that you have the chance to be saved.

Don't be foolish and argue with the Word. It is clear.

The history of mankind shows man propping themselves up as gods. Masters of our destinies. Always in control. Teaching the ways of righteousness as we see fit. Fools.

It is your choice... the will of God or the doctrine of men. I pray you choose wisely.
 
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Oh good grief........


  1. Is Jesus His own Father?
  2. If Jesus' will and the Father's will were identical, then why did Jesus express the desire to escape the cup but resigns Himself not to His own will, but the will of the Father? Jesus says "Not MY will but THY WILL be done." He makes a DISTINCTION between HIS will and the Father's will. Is God a schizophrenic?? He is if you're Onenness.
  3. Was Jesus praying to Himself in the Garden of Gethsemane?
  4. If Jesus was praying to the divine side of Himself, then isn't He still praying to Himself? Of course He is. Did He answer Himself?? Again, a schizophrenic God who not only talks to Himself, He answers Himself. Better YET, He answered Himself "NO"!! Jesus asked that the cup of suffering to PASS FROM HIM, and the Father obviously answered "NO" because Jesus SUFFERED. Jesus DENIED HIS OWN REQUEST. Again, schizoid.
  5. Why was Jesus not saying, "Not My will, but MY will be done?" if there is only one person and one will involved when He was praying in Luke 22:42 & Matt. 26:39. I'll put my version of the Oneness translation of Jn 17 here to illustrate tyhe ridiculous nature of this heresy.
  6. If baptism is essential for salvation, then what happens to someone who repents of sin, accepts Jesus as Savior, walks across the street to get baptized but is killed by a car. Does he go to heaven or hell?
    1. If he goes to heaven, then baptism isn't a requirement is it?
    2. If he goes to hell, then faith in Christ isn't sufficient to save him is it?
  7. Since the Bible teaches us that Jesus is in BODILY form RIGHT NOW (Col. 2:9), then how does the Oneness Pentecostal person maintain that God is in the form of the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit doesn't have a body, but Jesus does RIGHT NOW. Hmmmmm. Also, when Jesus returns, will He return in His body? The BIBLE says HE will return EXACTLY as He left.......BODILY. Will God's form then revert to the form of the Son at a later date?Is He like Superman, running for a phonebooth to change costumes??
  8. If God is only one person, why did Jesus say in John 14:23, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." If God is only one person, why does Jesus say, "we"?
  9. Oneness theology teaches that God was in the mode of the Father in the Old Testament. God was seen in the OT (not as a vision or a dream or an angel in the following verses: Exo. 6:2-3; Gen. 19:24; Num. 12:6-8). But, Jesus said no one has seen the Father (John 6:46). If they were seeing God Almighty (Exo. 6:2-3) but it wasn't the Father, then who was it?
 
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Oh, I promised that I would display the fallacy of Oneness by showing what their doctrine does to passages like John 17 (among MANY others). Remember, Oneness teaches that there is no Trinity. There is only Jesus pretending to be the Father and the Spirit and lying to us about it by claiming that the non-existent Father and Spirit bear witness to Him...........which can't be true since they are only Jesus in disguise.

Here is what Jn 17 MUST read if Oneness is true. Here is a link to Jn 17.. Please read it FIRST.John 17 KJV

Jesus is talking to Himself according to you, right? well here ya go. Ready??

Jn 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Me, the hour is come; glorify Me, that I also may glorify Me: (Does that make sense to ANYBODY except a Oneness dude??)

2 As I hast given Myself power over all flesh, that I should give eternal life to as many as I hast given Myself.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know Me the only true God, and Me, whom I hast sent. (Errrr.......OK)

4 I have glorified Me on the earth: I have finished the work which I gavest myself to do. (Jesus sure gives Himself a lot of stuff. Since everything in Creation is His, why does He give Himself stuff He already has??)

5 And now, O Me, glorify Me with Mine own self with the glory which I had with Myself before the world was. (Jesus is asking Himself to glorify Himself with His own Self which He had with Himself?? Riiiiiight)

6 I have manifested My name unto the men which I gavest to Me out of the world: Mine they were, and I gavest them to Me; and they have kept My word.(There He goes giving Himself stuff again. Jesus doesn't seem to share well with others)

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever I hast given Me are of Me. (He didn't know BEFORE this that all the stuff He keeps giving Himself came from Himself?? I mean, if I give myself an ice cream cone, I pretty much know right away that I did it))

8 For I have given unto them the words which I gavest Me; and they have received [them], and have known surely that I came out from Myself, and they have believed that I didst send Me. (I wonder what the Apostles thought when Jesus supposedly told them that He came from Himself and that He sent Himself after giving Himself all this stuff which He didn't know He gave Himself until just now?)

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which I hast given Me; for they are Mine. (I guess they WOULD be His, since they were His to begin with but for some reason He gave them back to Himself again).

10 (I just LOVE this one) And all Mine are Mine, and Mine are Mine; and I am glorified in them. (His are His and His are His...... instead of Mine are thine and thine are mine, because He's talking to Himself in OnenessLand. Oh yeah, that's MUCH better)

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to Me.(How do you come to yourself?? Personally, I never leave myself. Do you??) Holy Me, keep through Mine own name those whom I hast given Me, that they may be one, as Me [are].

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in My name: those that I gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (Still giving Himself stuff)

13 And now I come to Me (AGAIN?? I gotta see how He does that); and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them My word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that I shouldest take them out of the world, but that I shouldest keep them from the evil. (Why is He praying to Himself and asking Himself to do stuff?? Do you ask yourself permission to do things too?)

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through My truth: My word is truth.

18 As I hast sent Me into the world (He sends Himself away from Himself, then He comes back to Himself. He really gets around. But He never really gets anywhere, since you can't leave yourself to begin with), even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21(Another good one coming up here) That they all may be one; as I, Me art in Me, and Me in Me, that they also may be one in Me: that the world may believe that I hast sent Me. (Jesus wants us to know that He is in Himself so that we can know that He sent Himself. OK, I'm getting a headache.)

22 And the glory which I gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as I are one: (Still giving Himself stuff HE already has.Jesus is the ultimate re-gifter.)

23 I in them, and Me in Me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that I hast sent Me, and hast loved them, as I hast loved Me.(He really loves Himself some Himself, don't He??)

24 Me (Still talking to Himself) , I will that they also, whom I hast given Me (Still giving Himself stuff HE already has), be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which I hast given Me: for I lovedst Myself before the foundation of the world. (OK. You love You some You. We get it)

25 O righteous Me, the world hath not known Me: but I have known Me (Thank goodness for that), and these have known that I hast sent Myself.

26 And I have declared unto them My name, and will declare [it]: that the love wherewith I hast loved Myself (There He goes again) may be in them, and I in them.


There ya go folks...........the Oneness Jesus on display. Let me know if you want me to go on, because there are literally thousands of verses of Scripture destroyed in this manner by adhering to this heresy.
 
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Here is another one of my favorites..........Jesus throwing His voice like a cheap Vegas ventriloquist, then lying about it by claiming its the Father validating His ministry.

Matthew 3:16-17 (New International Version)


16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."


See, since there IS only Jesus, then He HAD to have thrown His voice. There IS no Father in Heaven to SPEAK at this point according to Oneness. Which makes Jesus a deceiver, since he let the folks there believe the voice came from Heaven and not from Himself through trickery.


But wait!! Jesus isn't through with His magic act because He threw His voice later on the Mo8unt of Transfiguration and AGAIN deceived the disciples by allowing them to believe it was from Heaven and not just a cheap parlor trick of throwing His own voice.



After six days Jesus took with Him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.


2 There He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.


3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.


4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”


5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is My Son, whom I love; with Him I am well pleased. Listen to Him!”(How can Jesus be His own Son?? Is the voice lying??)


6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground, terrified. (I wonder why they were afraid?? It was just Jesus throwing His voice according to Oneness).

7 But Jesus came and touched them. He said, “Get up. Don’t be afraid.” 8 When they looked up they saw no one except Jesus.


I could go on all night.
 
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gary you could go on all night...but nobody cares...

:dunno:

Yet another sample of the intellectual vacuum which is XXX. I bet Captain Oneness cares. I bet those who adhere to the historic faith care. We just don't care that you don't care. Who are you?? Yup,nobody cares.
 
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Yet another sample of the intellectual vacuum which is XXX. I bet Captain Oneness cares. I bet those who adhere to the historic faith care. We just don't care that you don't care. Who are you?? Yup,nobody cares.

you seem pressed....


by the way. was that you not caring about what i said about jesus not existing in the other thread? were your feelings hurt?
 
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you seem pressed....


by the way. was that you not caring about what i said about jesus not existing in the other thread? were your feelings hurt?

No credible historian would back that claim, so no. If Christ didn't exist, neither did Julius Caesar,since the evidence for Christ outstrips the evidence for Caesar a thousandfold.

But that would require you to be honest and consistent. We can't have THAT.
 
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GaryV, let's deal with the "oneness" and "trinitarian" labels later because, truthfully, I don't care about the brands or whatever we call ourselves.

Let's address the core of the matter first...

Do you believe that baptism is required?

"Yes" or "no" is fine for now.
 
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GaryV, let's deal with the "oneness" and "trinitarian" labels later because, truthfully, I don't care about the brands or whatever we call ourselves.

Let's address the core of the matter first...

Do you believe that baptism is required?

"Yes" or "no" is fine for now.

Let's not. You called me out. Answer the posts I've written. We never even broached baptism. And it's not even close to the core of the issue
 
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OT: Just a little bit.

However, since we are talking about baptism and the trinity, I was always perplexed by something that this one pastor did during baptism.

Please help me to understand and I am not being facetious, I really want an answer.

This particular pastor would take the baptism candidates down twice. Once for the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and the second time in Jesus name. He said he wasn't sure who is right so he does both. This always baffled me.

Anyone want a shot at this? I asked him once about the double dipping and he ignored me. He ignored any Bible based questions that I asked but loved to gossip about folks and talk about himself. I had the sneaking suspicion that he didn't know the Bible and was just faking the funk. Mind you, he has been in the ministry for decades.
 
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Hi GaryV. You broached the baptism topic when you asked if a person would be saved if they had repented and were walking across the street to be baptized and got hit by a car and killed?

So my follow up question is simple... Do you believe baptism is required for salvation?

This will all come together later. We must form a basis of understanding or some sort of common ground to start from first.

The readers of this board deserve your answer. You are the one professing your doctrine to loyal readers that believe what you say. One of us will be turned to the truth by the time this is done. If not, one of us will pay the ultimate price. We both can't be right and we both can't be saved if one of us gets the core of it wrong.

I pray you help me if I am misunderstanding. For now, let us know if you believe baptism is required for salvation. "Yes" or "No" is all we need to get started.
 
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Chile -- sitting under that pastor seems dangerous. If the person was baptized in the name of Jesus separately and finally then, technically, the act of baptism is fulfilled. The problem is that baptism does not send someone to the kingdom of God by itself. Repentance is of the heart and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit is based on that. If the pastor preaches false doctrine then the Lord may not even know him or those that sit under him if their hearts follow the pastor and not the scripture (Matt 7:22-24). I would say that if someone was "double-dunked" then the baptism of the heart is not true and repentance has not truly occurred. We must do all in word and deed in the name of Lord Jesus (Col 3:17). Covering all your bases is not an option and is Pharisee-ical in mentality. We cannot be bold (as we are commanded) if our heart is confused.

Those people should study the scripture, believe in Jesus, love Him and be baptized in Jesus' name and Jesus' name only, with all boldness and conviction of heart.

GaryV and I agree on one thing for sure -- Know the scriptures for yourself. To do that we must read them. How many of us actually do? How can we know God if we are not with God. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God (John 1:1). Blindly believing in men (whether it be me, GaryV, Pastor Jennings or any other man) without questioning that man based on the word of God is being careless with your soul.
 
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I'm very familiar with his teachings. Attended a few services when he came to my area, by which i met him personally. Very pleasant and respectable in person. I have a great deal of respect for him compared to the prosperity pimps out here. However, I'm quite concerned with him compiling the so-called Lost Books with the original Canon. This is one issue along with a few of the other things that he preaches.
I believe the Bible was written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit Of God. I believe every word in the Bible is truly written, but I don't believe every word is a statement of truth.

Also, I believe there were other God-inspired books written that were not included in what we now know as The Bible.
 
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Hi GaryV. You broached the baptism topic when you asked if a person would be saved if they had repented and were walking across the street to be baptized and got hit by a car and killed?

So my follow up question is simple... Do you believe baptism is required for salvation?

This will all come together later. We must form a basis of understanding or some sort of common ground to start from first.

The readers of this board deserve your answer. You are the one professing your doctrine to loyal readers that believe what you say. One of us will be turned to the truth by the time this is done. If not, one of us will pay the ultimate price. We both can't be right and we both can't be saved if one of us gets the core of it wrong.

I pray you help me if I am misunderstanding. For now, let us know if you believe baptism is required for salvation. "Yes" or "No" is all we need to get started.
Although the question was asked of Gary V. I know that one does NOT have to be baptized in order to be saved OR to go to heaven when they die.
 
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Hi GaryV. You broached the baptism topic when you asked if a person would be saved if they had repented and were walking across the street to be baptized and got hit by a car and killed?

So my follow up question is simple... Do you believe baptism is required for salvation?

This will all come together later. We must form a basis of understanding or some sort of common ground to start from first.

The readers of this board deserve your answer. You are the one professing your doctrine to loyal readers that believe what you say. One of us will be turned to the truth by the time this is done. If not, one of us will pay the ultimate price. We both can't be right and we both can't be saved if one of us gets the core of it wrong.

I pray you help me if I am misunderstanding. For now, let us know if you believe baptism is required for salvation. "Yes" or "No" is all we need to get started.

Baptism isn't the issue. It's not even close to the crux of the issue. The issue is whether or not Jesus is a deceiver, ventriloquist, schizophrenic. I'm not going to be sidetracked from the core issue.

Jesus' Words in Jn 17 are utter DRIVEL if He is talking to Himself.

Jesus is a deceiver if He threw His voice at His baptism and on the Mount of Transfiguration,then claimed His ministry was validated by that deception.

The Bible LIED if it says on one hand that no one has ever seen God, yet then says the 70 elders in Israel DID see Him on the Mount.

Jesus in the Garden CLEARLY demonstrated a DIFFERENT WILL (let this cup pass from Me) than that which His Father expressed........2 wills in one Person makes a schizophrenic.

Not to mention the fact that according to you He was praying to Himself, and then turned down His own request because the cup did NOT pass from Him. When you make a request of yourself, then say "no" to your own request because it's not your will to do your own will, you're schizo.

The Bible says that Jesus was WITH God and WAS God. The Greek word "with" literally means "face to face" in intimacy.How can you be face to face with yourself?

You said Jesus sits on His Own right hand. Does it ever fall asleep under Him??

Jesus clearly states in Jn 17 that He shared the Father's Glory with Him before the world began. But you say Jesus didn't exist before His incarnation. You say Jesus was just a plan in God's mind. How do you share Glory with a plan?? How do you get face to face with a plan??

The Bible clearly states that God will never share His Glory with another, but Jesus claimed He shared God's Glory before the foundation of the world. Is the Father lying in the Old Testament, or is Jesus lying in the New Testament??

Jesus is now our High Priest, ever living to intercede for us (Heb 7:25). Ummmm.....with Whom is Jesus interceding?? An intercessor is someone who stands between two parties in conflict. To Whom is Jesus praying for the Elect?? Does Jesus intercede with Himself?? How does that work exactly??

"Oh glorious Me........please keep brother Sam in My will. Blessed Me, I ask Me to build Sam up in the Holy Spirit (Me again). Oh Me, Please grant My requests."

Shoot, according to you, that BY JESUS prayer might be DENIED BY HIMSELF just like He denied His own prayer in Gethsemane.

Jesus said when He went away He would send ANOTHER comforter (paraclete), which in Greek "another" (allos) means, "another, other of the same sort", a NUMERICAL (more than one) distinction. Not "HETEROS", which would mean the SAME ONE sent again, as you claim the Holy Spirit is the same Person as Jesus, just sent again.

Jesus sent ANOTHER COMFORTER, not HIMSELF AGAIN in a different mask. If Jesus promised to send ANOTHER COMFORTER, but then just changed masks and sent Himself back, then He deceived those who heard Him promise to send ANOTHER beside Himself.

THESE are the core issues. The way Oneness' heresies make God a deceiver, a liar, a cheap Vegas ventriloquist deceiving with cheap tricks, a schizophrenic Who not only talks to Himself, He prays to Himself and then turns Himself down. Who intercedes on behalf of the Elect..........with Himself, pleading with Himself for them that they would be accepted by Himself.

Seriously??
 
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This is long but please read...

Hi Iron Man and N2Truth2,

I respect your answer. N2Truth2, you say that you "believe every word written in the Bible is truly written, but not every word is a statement of truth."

How do you determine which words are not a statement of truth?

If the word was written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit (as you state), aren't those men therefore inspired by God? In that case, aren't those words the words of God?

Do you believe John 1:1? That the "Word was God"? How about 1 Peter 1:25 that "the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."

How about 1 John 1:1-4 where John states that the apostles have seen the Word (remember with Jesus the Word became flesh) and "these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full."

If you believe that to be the case, then by you determining which scripture is truth are you stating you are greater than God for if you are powerful to determine which scripture is truth then you must then be saying that the writers of the word (those who you agree are inspired by the Holy Spirit) are wrong.

Does God change? Does the word change? Does the meaning change? Does truth change? All these questions are empqhatically answered in James 1:17-18... "...Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

In addition, there are no levels of truth. A statement is either true or it is not true. If you believe some of the word is not true, then you are basically saying that those words are not true. Since the word is written as an assertion of truth (James 1:18, John 17:17), the words you question cannot be mistakes by the apostles who wrote them. So if the words they say are truth are not truth, then (by default) they must be lies. So you are picking and choosing which piece of the book is truth and which piece is a lie.


As for baptism...

Acts 2:17 quotes Joel that God says he will pour out his spirit upon all flesh

Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 both state that whoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. By the way, what is the name of the Lord? Funny how that title is also not part of the trinity. Oh wait, scripture tells us what the name of the Lord is -- many times. Let's pick one -- Luke 6:46 Jesus says to his disciples, "And why call ye me Lord..." Acts 2:36 "... God hath made that same Jesus...both Lord and Christ."

So, because the Lord = Jesus, in order to be saved we must call on the name of Jesus.

Acts 2:38 reiterates that point and is the plan of salvation in its simplest of forms. Why people get cute with this scripture is mind-numbing. It is so important and basic that it bears me typing it, for it feels good to do so.

First, the context... remember, the crowd of people have seen people speaking in their own tongue (a blessing from God for all to understand the truth). Peter had to tell the crowd that these people are not drunk - it is only the 3rd hour of the day. This is the Spirit that Jesus promised. So the crowd asks in Acts 2:37, "...they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

Ok, note -- they specifically asked what they can do to be saved (back to Acts 2:21). Note that 2:22 through 2:35 are all backdrop of the power of Jesus. 2:36 names Jesus as Lord and Christ. 2:37 is the question "What shall we do?" Acts 2:38 is the answer...

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you..."

Wait... Stop...

How many did Peter say need to be baptized? 1 of you? 10 of you? 35% of you? Those who feel like it? Those who want to cool off? No, EVERY ONE OF YOU.

Ok, how is EVERY one of them to be baptized? Let's continue...

"...be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ..."

Wait... Stop... Hold It...

In what name? In the name of the Father? In the name of the Son? In the name of the Holy Ghost? In the name of the Lord? In the name of the burning bush? No... in the name of JESUS CHRIST. It is specifically stated.

Now, Peter and the rest of the apostles who were there and of whom the question was asked in Acts 2:37 were also there when Jesus gave his great commission in Matthew 28. So, Matt 28:19 -- the most debated scripture in the entire Bible. Some say "Those are Jesus' words -- we must be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." Here is the scripture...

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

Three things...

1. Jesus says emphatically to teach all nations and to baptize them. So why do you guys say I will do what Jesus says and baptize people in the titles but then you don't do what he says and baptize all nations? How can you pick and choose what is true? This scripture is further proof that baptism is required. This scripture is your calling card. It is probably hung up on your wall yet you do not listen to it.

I am not going to debate the "titles" or the "name" language. That debate has gone on for centuries and I will not change your minds on that.

2. Mark 16:15-28 is another account of the great commission. It reads...

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues..."

Wow. That scripture says a lot...

- preach to every creature
- he that believeth and is baptized in "my Name" (that was Jesus talking) shall be saved
- he that doesn't believe will be damned

3. Next, who was Jesus talking to that day? Matt 28:16 answers that -- "the eleven disciples." Ok, so the 11 were there and listened to Jesus. This is a first-person point of understanding. Those 11 heard the words directly from Jesus with no interpretation or translation. Therefore, they must know the context of Jesus' statement in Matt 28:19.

So, back to day of Pentecost.

1. Who is there? Acts 2:37 states that Peter and the rest of the apostles were there.

2. When asked by the crowd, "What shall we do?" Peter answered, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost."

Remember, Peter was there at the great commission. What did he take away from Jesus' words in Matt 28:19. He took away that the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is "Jesus Christ." Not only did he say this, the other apostles that were at the day of Pentecost did not correct Peter (you know, in case he was making a mistake or lying).

In addition, Peter's words were backed up by actions. There is not a single instance in the scripture in which a person was baptized in the name of the titles... Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There are many scriptures stating baptism in Jesus name (Acts 10:48, Acts 19:5, Acts 22:16, Gal 3:27).

Further, remission or washing away of sin is a theme of the New Testament. Putting on Christ" is discussed throughout. What was Jesus' purpose? He says himself he was here to pay for us. He was here to die for us. That's why baptism is required -- to kill the old man - the sinner - and to be born clean. Paul's story is a classic example (see Acts 22:10-16).

1 Peter 3:21 -- "... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Oh, how powerful is Romans 6:1-14? Please read it and I pray your eyes shall be opened. This shows the glorifying process of crucifying our old man so that our body of sin is destroyed. To be dead to sin we must be buried through baptism to receive a resurrected life of newness with Christ. Actually... I must type it and leave you with these words for these words need no interpretation. I pray you don't decide these words to be lies...

Romans 6:1-11 (empahsis is mine).

1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That's it -- that last verse is it. Romans 6:11 -- that's the scripture to hang on your wall. We are not dead unto sin until we are baptized (see v4). We cannot be alive unto God through Jesus Christ unless we kill and bury the sinner first.

I pray for your understanding.

I pray you take heed, read the scripture, understand them and do not cherry-pick them and call the apostles liars.

GaryV, I have spoken enough today. You will not answer me, but your silence is your answer. I am sure you don't want to commit to an answer because you know the scripture does not support your opinion and false doctrine.

We will talk about your lack of faith in God's abilities and your lack of faith in his love another time. Jesus came to Earth for the sinners. He came to find the lost sheep and bring them to the barn. If you believe he will lead that sheep back to the barn and then cut his throat, then you have to get on your knees right now. If you really believe the Lord would kill someone that is walking across the street to be baptized, you must repent. More with you later.

Everyone, including GaryV, please repent and be baptized (each and every one of you) in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sin.
 
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I'll add these two things:

a. The dying thief saw no baptism and was told he would be with Jesus in paradise. (Now, I realize that there is much more going on in that story, but I believe the sentiment holds weight).


b. I believe that the need for baptism presents a works-based salvation while the Scriptures are replete with the fact that the Gospel is faith-based.


Romans 10:9; John 3:16 (either Jesus is lying or there is no need for baptism; if we're going to use Jesus' words, we have to use all of them in concert and context).


Have a great weekend, everyone.
 
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Hi Iron Man,

I briefly looked at the article you mentioned. I will read it in full later and reply.

At first glance, I see this...

-------------------------------------------------------

Baptism Verses

John 3:5, "Jesus answered, &#8216;I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.'"

Some say that water here means baptism, but that is unlikely since Christian baptism hadn't yet been instituted. If this verse did mean baptism, then the only kind that it could have been at that point was the baptism of repentance administered by John the Baptist (Mark 1:4). If that is so, then baptism is not necessary for salvation because the baptism of repentance is no longer practiced.

It is my opinion that the water spoken of here means the water of the womb referring to the natural birth process. Jesus said in verse three that Nicodemus needed to be born "again." This meant that he had been born once -- through his mother's womb. Nicodemus responds with a statement about how he cannot enter again into his mother's womb to be born. Then Jesus says that he must be born of water and the Spirit. Then in verse 6 He says that "flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." The context seems to be discussing the contrast between the natural and the spiritual birth. Water, therefore, could easily be interpreted there to mean the natural birth process."

-------------------------------------------------------

My Lord.

Ephesians 4:4-6... "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in the hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all..."

Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16 -- Is Jesus a liar?

Is Paul a liar? Is Peter?

This article is doctrine of men. How do I know? Look at paragraph 3 above. It begins... "It is my opinion..."

Who cares about his opinion? Give me the word. Give me the truth. Give me the scripture.

Then his opinion goes off the tracks. Baptism is the water from a mother's womb? What? I'll take a side order of one scripture with that please? Does he have that on the menu? Or does he just have his opinion?

Only one thing to say about this so far... Holy Moly.
 
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Iron Man,

You mention Romans 10:9 and John 3:16.

Paul clearly states that baptism is required for salvation. In Romans 10:9, Paul is referencing the Jews and their lack of belief in Jesus Christ and that Jesus is the path to salvation for all men, Jews and Gentiles alike (v13). The Jews had other issues with faith which is the context of this part of the letter. The Jews were still living under the law which was put away with Jesus. Paul had addressed sin and baptism earlier in the letter in 6:1-11.

John 3:16 - what is a condition of belief? See Mark 16:16 and Romans 6:8.

Iron Man, I beg you to please, please read 1 Peter 3:21. Actually, here it is...

"... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Oh Lord. How easy is that? No opinions or interpretation necessary.

What saves? Baptism.

What does not save? The putting away of the filth of the flesh.

Belief is not enough as Jesus expressly states in Mark 16:16 (empahsis mine): "He that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved..."

I am sorry to reference the same verses as I did in my long post above, but please read that post. All scripture is the truth and is very clear to understand.

This is the danger of taking one verse of scripture and analyzing it without knowing context. It is like hearing one side of a phone conversation and making a definitive statement on what the conversation was about.

The scripture is written for understanding but we must take the time to read it, pray on it and understand it... not cherry-pick text that fits our pre-formed ideology and false doctrine or traditions of men.
 
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This is long but please read...

Hi Iron Man and N2Truth2,

I respect your answer. N2Truth2, you say that you "believe every word written in the Bible is truly written, but not every word is a statement of truth."

How do you determine which words are not a statement of truth?

If the word was written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit (as you state), aren't those men therefore inspired by God? In that case, aren't those words the words of God?

Do you believe John 1:1? That the "Word was God"? How about 1 Peter 1:25 that "the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."

How about 1 John 1:1-4 where John states that the apostles have seen the Word (remember with Jesus the Word became flesh) and "these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full."

If you believe that to be the case, then by you determining which scripture is truth are you stating you are greater than God for if you are powerful to determine which scripture is truth then you must then be saying that the writers of the word (those who you agree are inspired by the Holy Spirit) are wrong.

Does God change? Does the word change? Does the meaning change? Does truth change? All these questions are empqhatically answered in James 1:17-18... "...Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

In addition, there are no levels of truth. A statement is either true or it is not true. If you believe some of the word is not true, then you are basically saying that those words are not true. Since the word is written as an assertion of truth (James 1:18, John 17:17), the words you question cannot be mistakes by the apostles who wrote them. So if the words they say are truth are not truth, then (by default) they must be lies. So you are picking and choosing which piece of the book is truth and which piece is a lie.


As for baptism...

Acts 2:17 quotes Joel that God says he will pour out his spirit upon all flesh

Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 both state that whoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. By the way, what is the name of the Lord? Funny how that title is also not part of the trinity. Oh wait, scripture tells us what the name of the Lord is -- many times. Let's pick one -- Luke 6:46 Jesus says to his disciples, "And why call ye me Lord..." Acts 2:36 "... God hath made that same Jesus...both Lord and Christ."

So, because the Lord = Jesus, in order to be saved we must call on the name of Jesus.

Acts 2:38 reiterates that point and is the plan of salvation in its simplest of forms. Why people get cute with this scripture is mind-numbing. It is so important and basic that it bears me typing it, for it feels good to do so.

First, the context... remember, the crowd of people have seen people speaking in their own tongue (a blessing from God for all to understand the truth). Peter had to tell the crowd that these people are not drunk - it is only the 3rd hour of the day. This is the Spirit that Jesus promised. So the crowd asks in Acts 2:37, "...they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

Ok, note -- they specifically asked what they can do to be saved (back to Acts 2:21). Note that 2:22 through 2:35 are all backdrop of the power of Jesus. 2:36 names Jesus as Lord and Christ. 2:37 is the question "What shall we do?" Acts 2:38 is the answer...

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you..."

Wait... Stop...

How many did Peter say need to be baptized? 1 of you? 10 of you? 35% of you? Those who feel like it? Those who want to cool off? No, EVERY ONE OF YOU.

Ok, how is EVERY one of them to be baptized? Let's continue...

"...be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ..."

Wait... Stop... Hold It...

In what name? In the name of the Father? In the name of the Son? In the name of the Holy Ghost? In the name of the Lord? In the name of the burning bush? No... in the name of JESUS CHRIST. It is specifically stated.

Now, Peter and the rest of the apostles who were there and of whom the question was asked in Acts 2:37 were also there when Jesus gave his great commission in Matthew 28. So, Matt 28:19 -- the most debated scripture in the entire Bible. Some say "Those are Jesus' words -- we must be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." Here is the scripture...

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

Three things...

1. Jesus says emphatically to teach all nations and to baptize them. So why do you guys say I will do what Jesus says and baptize people in the titles but then you don't do what he says and baptize all nations? How can you pick and choose what is true? This scripture is further proof that baptism is required. This scripture is your calling card. It is probably hung up on your wall yet you do not listen to it.

I am not going to debate the "titles" or the "name" language. That debate has gone on for centuries and I will not change your minds on that.

2. Mark 16:15-28 is another account of the great commission. It reads...

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues..."

Wow. That scripture says a lot...

- preach to every creature
- he that believeth and is baptized in "my Name" (that was Jesus talking) shall be saved
- he that doesn't believe will be damned

3. Next, who was Jesus talking to that day? Matt 28:16 answers that -- "the eleven disciples." Ok, so the 11 were there and listened to Jesus. This is a first-person point of understanding. Those 11 heard the words directly from Jesus with no interpretation or translation. Therefore, they must know the context of Jesus' statement in Matt 28:19.

So, back to day of Pentecost.

1. Who is there? Acts 2:37 states that Peter and the rest of the apostles were there.

2. When asked by the crowd, "What shall we do?" Peter answered, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost."

Remember, Peter was there at the great commission. What did he take away from Jesus' words in Matt 28:19. He took away that the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is "Jesus Christ." Not only did he say this, the other apostles that were at the day of Pentecost did not correct Peter (you know, in case he was making a mistake or lying).

In addition, Peter's words were backed up by actions. There is not a single instance in the scripture in which a person was baptized in the name of the titles... Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There are many scriptures stating baptism in Jesus name (Acts 10:48, Acts 19:5, Acts 22:16, Gal 3:27).

Further, remission or washing away of sin is a theme of the New Testament. Putting on Christ" is discussed throughout. What was Jesus' purpose? He says himself he was here to pay for us. He was here to die for us. That's why baptism is required -- to kill the old man - the sinner - and to be born clean. Paul's story is a classic example (see Acts 22:10-16).

1 Peter 3:21 -- "... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Oh, how powerful is Romans 6:1-14? Please read it and I pray your eyes shall be opened. This shows the glorifying process of crucifying our old man so that our body of sin is destroyed. To be dead to sin we must be buried through baptism to receive a resurrected life of newness with Christ. Actually... I must type it and leave you with these words for these words need no interpretation. I pray you don't decide these words to be lies...

Romans 6:1-11 (empahsis is mine).

1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That's it -- that last verse is it. Romans 6:11 -- that's the scripture to hang on your wall. We are not dead unto sin until we are baptized (see v4). We cannot be alive unto God through Jesus Christ unless we kill and bury the sinner first.

I pray for your understanding.

I pray you take heed, read the scripture, understand them and do not cherry-pick them and call the apostles liars.

GaryV, I have spoken enough today. You will not answer me, but your silence is your answer. I am sure you don't want to commit to an answer because you know the scripture does not support your opinion and false doctrine.

We will talk about your lack of faith in God's abilities and your lack of faith in his love another time. Jesus came to Earth for the sinners. He came to find the lost sheep and bring them to the barn. If you believe he will lead that sheep back to the barn and then cut his throat, then you have to get on your knees right now. If you really believe the Lord would kill someone that is walking across the street to be baptized, you must repent. More with you later.

Everyone, including GaryV, please repent and be baptized (each and every one of you) in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sin.

Are you simply incapable of reading, or are you just fixated?? I'm not silent. I have multiple postings that you haven't answered, yet you want to skip them all and jump to baptism. Baptism has NOTHING to do with the fact that Oneness makes Jesus a cheap ventriloquist, a deceiver, a liar, and a schizo.

Let's just say I was baptized however you prefer to make you happy, so we can move on to something RELEVANT.No matter HOW you were baptized, if your Jesus is a lying, deceiving schizo, the method of your dunking is irrelevant. Now answer the questions and Oneness incongruities I posted.

You may well be delusional enough to think that no one here notices your clumsy and rather pathetic attempt to change the topic. But we not only notice, we know precisely WHY you don't respond. You can't.

When you answer the ORIGINAL POSTS you called me out to see (rather than, "Oh crap, I can't answer those. Better switch the subject and hope nobody notices"), I will happily address baptism.

Tic Toc.
 
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Iron Man,

You mention Romans 10:9 and John 3:16.
John 3:16 - what is a condition of belief? See Mark 16:16 and Romans 6:8.

Uh, wait, whut?


John 3:16 mentions NOTHING of baptism. NOTHING. So, to what condition are you referring?


Romans 6:8 doesn't belong in this conversation; so, I have no idea as to why you're referencing it.


Lastly, in Mark 16:16, the second clause of that scripture states that if one doesn't BELIEVE they will be condemned.

So, it stands to reason that one must BELIEVE in the deity and lordship of Jesus. Once that belief occurs, INWARDLY, then an outward manifestation of that initail belief is the water baptism. But, the water does NOT save us.

FAITH SAVES US!!


As for the website, I'll concede to your point on dude giving his opinion concerning the water reference.


Gotta go, was able to get to a computer for a hot sec.


GV, I think s/he is scared to respond to your other points. :dunno:
 

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