HTGAWM| Episode 6 X 13 "What If Sam Wasn’t the Bad Guy This Whole Time?" 4/30

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Wowwww just finished the episode and I’m floored. This show has had me on the ropes for years and it doesn’t end.

I would have NEVER guessed why Sam kept Frank around even after the baby died and now it’s all making sense.
Does Sam know that's his child? Maybe he was told to look out for Frank for a different reason...
 
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I just watched the episode and the they’re trying to say that Frank is Hannah and Sam’s child? So two SIBLINGS had an incest child with NO physical disfigurements or disabilities?

The writers are just pulling shit out of their asses.
 
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I just watched the episode and the they’re trying to say that Frank is Hannah and Sam’s child? So two SIBLINGS had an incest child with NO physical disfigurements or disabilities?

The writers are just pulling shit out of their asses.
Frank is really fucked up in the head. He's a killer who enjoys killing, but has a heart of gold when it comes to people he loves. I guess their logic is Frank's disability is psychological?

I hate that the viewers have to find ways to explain this shitty writing. I'm ready for this to be over which is sad because this show started off with such promise only for them to ruin it. I thought this show was going to focus on Annalise's legal expertise. I miss them working on actual cases; the students competing for Annalise's approval while she showed them how it's really done. I don't understand why this show became what it is right now.
 
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Annalise shouldn’t even be upset, I mean, it’s clear she prefers women. Sam was just her beard anyway.

That’s what I was thinking too. I was confused, she only got with him to stop her feelings for eve, so why so pressed about Sam? I guess it’s more of an ego stroke than anything.
 
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Do you honestly think that's why?
I was trying not to go there but I thought of that.

Oh, definitely. I think the level of sympathy and leeway (or lack thereof in Nate's case) accorded to Frank and Nate would be dramatically different if both characters were black or if both characters were white.
 
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Oh, definitely. I think the level of sympathy and leeway (or lack thereof in Nate's case) accorded to Frank and Nate would be dramatically different if both characters were black or if both characters were white.

I agree. In my opinion Frank is just as much of a villian as others.
 
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He wanted to tell Analise but Sam told him not to.
My problem with Frank is that on top of that he did nothing about the Lila murder aftermath. Now it's beyond obvious the writers came up with that twist late in the season but for me that made him beyond redemption when he was being given the over the top redemption arc in S3.
It made the show too subjective and "dumb" in a way in the sense that i get that the writing can get a bit creative and push the boundaries of common sense, but i can't really take anything reasoning about characters being redeemable or not seriously. It's not what they're guilty of, their motives or whatever else one could get from the writing - it's about who is Pete's "fave" and who isn't.
 
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My problem with Frank is that on top of that he did nothing about the Lila murder aftermath. Now it's beyond obvious the writers came up with that twist late in the season but for me that made him beyond redemption when he was being given the over the top redemption arc in S3.
It made the show too subjective and "dumb" in a way in the sense that i get that the writing can get a bit creative and push the boundaries of common sense, but i can't really take anything reasoning about characters being redeemable or not seriously. It's not what they're guilty of, their motives or whatever else one could get from the writing - it's about who is Pete's "fave" and who isn't.

You think so? I've heard about writers having their faves but wasn't sure if it was true
Even taking in people's responses I find it annoying that Frank's character is written as a "redeemable", "ride or die" while Nate is written as some "bitter" man who blames Annalise for everything.
 
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This show jumped the shark with this episode. What the fuck was this bullshit! Incest, Incest babies? Girl fuck Pete! If this show wasn't about to end I would quit now.
 
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True. I remember reading on here a while ago about how the boyfriend of some actress (Tilda Swinton) is the product of incest. His parents are daughter and father, and he looks normal.

nintchdbpict000302294697.jpg


I'm sure he also doesn't have any major disabilities if he's even able to talk about this.


I'm going to hell because I initially glanced over your post and read it as Tilda Swinton is the product of incest and I was like she looks it, but after re-reading your post in full..... :unsure:
 
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It's been long since I've viewed a HTGAWM thread, so I'm unaware of people's opinion in here but am I the only ones who gets annoyed by how Frank's character is viewed vs how Nate's is?

They've all done stuff but for some reason people act like Nate is such a villian and Frank is some hero despite him not hesitating to hurt or threaten ANYONE.

Frank is absolutely a villain. The difference is he’s a smart bad guy. He kills and has a plan to dispose of a body and does things in a controlled manner.

Nate beats a man to near death with his bare hands and can only sit and shake talking about, he killed my pops he killed my pops. Kills another man with his bare hands and leaves him there to rot, likely ending up in’s Annalise suffering for his foolish uncontrollable actions
.

They are both villains. Frank is definitely more cold and being a killer is second nature to him at this point. Now that we know his real parents are brother and sister no wonder he's so fucked up in the head. The problem with Nate is that he is not level-headed and he is sloppy, leaving other people to literally clean up his mess. He claims to hate Annalise but keeps coming back, he helps her, then turns his back on her. He worked with the feds against Annalise and acts like his hands are clean. He finds out who was responsible for having his dad killed, yet he is still trying to help put Anna away. Frank has been as loyal to Anna as she has allowed him to be, he doesn't act without thinking, he's not messy, and he takes accountability.
 
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They are both villains. Frank is definitely more cold and being a killer is second nature to him at this point. Now that we know his real parents are brother and sister no wonder he's so fucked up in the head. The problem with Nate is that he is not level-headed and he is sloppy, leaving other people to literally clean up his mess. He claims to hate Annalise but keeps coming back, he helps her, then turns his back on her. He worked with the feds against Annalise and acts like his hands are clean. He finds out who was responsible for having his dad killed, yet he is still trying to help put Anna away. Frank has been as loyal to Anna as she has allowed him to be, he doesn't act without thinking, he's not messy, and he takes accountability.
How? He was responsible for the whole Lila mess and did a big nothing to clean that up. His killing of Dominick was identical to Nate killing Xavier circumstances and context included. He's faithful to Annalise because without Laurel to droll over around the writers can't find him anything else to do.
 

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Because Pete Nowalk, the creator and writer, has lost his damn mind. He got away in the first season with writing as he went along, but over six years; you have to have a plot a in mind with development and an end goal and write ahead of time instead of looking to twitter for where you should go.

thanks!! So Sam and his sister had a baby which is Frank. Why are they bringing this up now?
 
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Because Pete Nowalk, the creator and writer, has lost his damn mind. He got away in the first season with writing as he went along, but over six years; you have to have a plot a in mind with development and an end goal and write ahead of time instead of looking to twitter for where you should go.
Or worse - reddit.
 
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You think so? I've heard about writers having their faves but wasn't sure if it was true
Even taking in people's responses I find it annoying that Frank's character is written as a "redeemable", "ride or die" while Nate is written as some "bitter" man who blames Annalise for everything.
What Wes, Nate and Gabe have in common? The viewers want them dead and Pete hate-writes them.

The writers always indulged in double standards. I mean everyone got on the K5 because affirmative action except Connor who got in on merit while spending the whole first season being a dumb ho?
 
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How? He was responsible for the whole Lila mess and did a big nothing to clean that up. His killing of Dominick was identical to Nate killing Xavier circumstances and context included. He's faithful to Annalise because without Laurel to droll over around the writers can't find him anything else to do.

Sam ordered the hit on Lila. There wasn't anything to clean up except for that wallpaper pic but he couldn't get in her phone. With the body being in the water tank on top of her sorority house, it sent detectives to point the finger at Rebecca and her bf for a while. Frank definitely was emotional about Laurel when he killed Dominick but he killed Wes and was responsible for Laurel almost dying. Dominick also was snooping around Gabriel, he was going to be next. Still we never heard anything else about Dominick.
 
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What Wes, Nate and Gabe have in common? The viewers want them dead and Pete hate-writes them.

The writers always indulged in double standards. I mean everyone got on the K5 because affirmative action except Connor who got in on merit while spending the whole first season being a dumb ho?

Don't forget Laurel. I'm almost stopped watching after the season that they made into her sob story after Wes supposedly "died".

They tried so hard to make it seem like she was "in love" with Wes & like she was the only one who ever cared for him. That season was more about her sob story than it was about Annalise.

I don't miss her character at all.
 
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So can we say that these two are two different sides of the same coin then?
They are both villains. Frank is definitely more cold and being a killer is second nature to him at this point. Now that we know his real parents are brother and sister no wonder he's so fucked up in the head. The problem with Nate is that he is not level-headed and he is sloppy, leaving other people to literally clean up his mess. He claims to hate Annalise but keeps coming back, he helps her, then turns his back on her. He worked with the feds against Annalise and acts like his hands are clean. He finds out who was responsible for having his dad killed, yet he is still trying to help put Anna away. Frank has been as loyal to Anna as she has allowed him to be, he doesn't act without thinking, he's not messy, and he takes accountability.
 
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Because Pete Nowalk, the creator and writer, has lost his damn mind. He got away in the first season with writing as he went along, but over six years; you have to have a plot a in mind with development and an end goal and write ahead of time instead of looking to twitter for where you should go.
THIS! Pete has admitted more than once that he did not plan much of anything and writes off the cuff without regarding how his unthoughtful, ill-conceived writing will affect the series arc as a whole. Who writes like this? Which film school did this man attend? This seems to be unorthodox and highly nonsensical. Going to message boards, Twitter and reddit for ideas? GTFOH:ROFLMAO:
 
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I just watched the episode and the they’re trying to say that Frank is Hannah and Sam’s child? So two SIBLINGS had an incest child with NO physical disfigurements or disabilities?

The writers are just pulling shit out of their asses.

The same thing crossed my mind as well so I googled it to see if there were statistics available - the numbers I saw were lower than I thought they'd be but still pretty high (around 50%). I guess they wanted a reason to explain Frank's psychology but this seems like the writers pulling shit out of their ass for the sake of shock value because they have really dropped the ball on building a cohesive storyline.
 

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