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The gospel of Thomas

MERICHRISTMAS

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Has anybody read this or other gospels that are not commonly found in any version of the Bible?

I started reading the Gospel of Thomas and came across a few passages.

Some are already in the Bible but worded a little differently...

(4) Jesus said, "The man old in days will not hesitate to ask a small child seven days old about the place of life, and he will live. For many who are first will become last, and they will become one and the same."
(5) Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."

Then there are these...

(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

(28) Jesus said, "I took my place in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in flesh. I found all of them intoxicated; I found none of them thirsty. And my soul became afflicted for the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will repent."

Has anyone read these? Can we discuss this or any other gospels that are not in the traditional bible?
 

MERICHRISTMAS

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Jeeze I put this in the wrong forum, can a mod please move this to the sanctuary?

Update THANK YOU for moving it!
 

NoFuxGivenn

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I think this is the most interesting one

Enoch.jpg


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIkUAjpts6A"]The Book of Enoch Banned From the Bible. ENOCH warns all HUMANITY..160 B.C - YouTube[/ame]
 

femi94ce

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I totally love GoT. I first came upon it in 1982 and it triggered a total transformation in how I viewed Christianity.


A couple of my favorite sayings:

(113) His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
<Jesus said,> "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

(114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."
Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."



LAFF
 

MERICHRISTMAS

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Looking at the youtube vid you provided, it's seems like it's very interesting. The vid notes that this book as essential to early Christians but banned from the Christian bible.

This explains the background of how giants like Goliath came to be.

The gospel of Thomas is basically just a collection of Jesus' sayings which seems unique and much different from the gospel of Enoch. Thanks [MENTION=92345]TheGEORGIApeach[/MENTION] I look forward to reading this I hope others will read it as well.
 

MERICHRISTMAS

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I totally love GoT. I first came upon it in 1982 and it triggered a total transformation in how I viewed Christianity.


A couple of my favorite sayings:

(113) His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
<Jesus said,> "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

(114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."
Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."



LAFF

Yes reading it is doing the same for me.

(114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."
Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."


We all know that during those times it was truly a mans world with women having very little say so over their lives and the lives of others.

This looks like an equal opportunity verse. It does not matter if you are man or woman, if you walk with the Spirit of the Lord, the Holy Spirit that fills you, then you will also be in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Do you think this could also be a passage that would support female Pastors in the church?
 

femi94ce

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I think it's important to look at it from a first century Greek man's perspective.

Aristotelian thought placed creation in a certain order of "perfection". Rocks are less perfect than plants, plants are less perfect than insects, insects are less perfect than reptiles, reptiles are less perfect than mammals, the female human is less perfect than the male human, who represents the pinnacle of creation's perfection.

Saying #114 represents a radical "equal opportunity" statement by Jesus who offers - through His indwelling in the spirit of the female - the means of her elevation to a "male" standard of perfection.

Because of this assertion in the scripture, early Gnostic gatherings, from what I understand, allowed women to preside over the communion table and to hold offices in the congregation.

LAFF
 

Sonofthemessiah

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I think it's important to look at it from a first century Greek man's perspective.

Aristotelian thought placed creation in a certain order of "perfection". Rocks are less perfect than plants, plants are less perfect than insects, insects are less perfect than reptiles, reptiles are less perfect than mammals, the female human is less perfect than the male human, who represents the pinnacle of creation's perfection.

Saying #114 represents a radical "equal opportunity" statement by Jesus who offers - through His indwelling in the spirit of the female - the means of her elevation to a "male" standard of perfection.

Because of this assertion in the scripture, early Gnostic gatherings, from what I understand, allowed women to preside over the communion table and to hold offices in the congregation.

LAFF

First of all God's language was Hebrew according to all who study manuscripts. Only God created order out of disorder. nowhere in the bible does God say woman is lesser than man. As a matter of fact God created woman as a help mate to be equal. How can rocks be less perfect when every day of creation God said it is good. in God's perfect world nothing has a lesser value. I wonder then have we been wrong about sin??? is there lesser sins?????
 

Sonofthemessiah

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unless Thomas was agreeing with Paul about the end of days when paul referenced these words to men and women as well as all who are in him.

Gal 3:28-29
28 there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor freeman, neither male nor female; for in union with the Messiah Yeshua, you are all one.
CJB
 

MERICHRISTMAS

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First of all God's language was Hebrew according to all who study manuscripts. Only God created order out of disorder. nowhere in the bible does God say woman is lesser than man. As a matter of fact God created woman as a help mate to be equal. How can rocks be less perfect when every day of creation God said it is good. in God's perfect world nothing has a lesser value. I wonder then have we been wrong about sin??? is there lesser sins?????

We know through study, that both men and women are equal in the Word of The Lord but unfortunately Son, many people like to point to 1Corinthians 11 and others to prove that God was not into equality for women, just the opposite.

Women pastors / preachers? What does the Bible say about women in ministry?

I was just reading this last week as I was looking for info in support of female Pastors and came across this site and these passages from the author (last paragraph of the author writings):

God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers, or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This logically would preclude women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s plan and His gifting of them.


 

Sonofthemessiah

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We know through study, that both men and women are equal in the Word of The Lord but unfortunately Son, many people like to point to 1Corinthians 11 and others to prove that God was not into equality for women, just the opposite.

Women pastors / preachers? What does the Bible say about women in ministry?

I was just reading this last week as I was looking for info in support of female Pastors and came across this site and these passages from the author (last paragraph of the author writings):

God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers, or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership&#8212;in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This logically would preclude women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God&#8217;s plan and His gifting of them.

I agree with what is in the book of Titus. false teaching have done a great deal of damage to the body we each have a roll in His world and the mother teaches the children. It by know means diminishes either roll in life but compliments the family unit. Women are major player in His word.

He created man a help meet according to the Hebrew language. Help meet means:


OT:5048 meet
neged (neh'-ghed); from OT:5046; a front, i.e. part opposite; specifically a counterpart, or mate; usually (adverbial, especially with preposition) over against or before:

here's the meaning in a nut shell: Woman was not created to agree with man but to help in making Godly decision. She blew it by leading him to sin and he lost his position by not taking the lead and stopping her from sinning
 

femi94ce

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First of all God's language was Hebrew according to all who study manuscripts. Only God created order out of disorder. nowhere in the bible does God say woman is lesser than man. As a matter of fact God created woman as a help mate to be equal. How can rocks be less perfect when every day of creation God said it is good. in God's perfect world nothing has a lesser value. I wonder then have we been wrong about sin??? is there lesser sins?????

We are not talking about the Bible here. We are talking about a non-canonical writing authored by a Greek in the 1st century C.E.

I'm not here to talk about the canon. I'm here to talk about the Gospel of Thomas..

LAFF
 

Sonofthemessiah

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We are not talking about the Bible here. We are talking about a non-canonical writing authored by a Greek in the 1st century C.E.

I'm not here to talk about the canon. I'm here to talk about the Gospel of Thomas..

LAFF

scrolls are scrolls and there are over 2000 of then stored in Israel. Some are part of the Jewish bible, some are of the catholic and some are of the christian. my point in this discussion is there is nothing to back up your point.
 

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scrolls are scrolls and there are over 2000 of then stored in Israel. Some are part of the Jewish bible, some are of the catholic and some are of the christian. my point in this discussion is there is nothing to back up your point.

The Nag Hammadi codices are not scrolls. They are books that were found near the village of Nag Hammadi in Egypt. They were written in Coptic and some earlier found fragments of GoT in Greek (Papyrus Oxyrhynchus). They are currently housed in the Museum of Egyptian Antiquity in Cairo, with the exception of the 2 Jung Codices.

The GoT is one of them.

And there is plenty of scholarly work that backs up my POV, including Aristotle himself. So I suggest you give him a read, get a clue and stop talking out of your arse.

LAFF
 

Sonofthemessiah

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The Nag Hammadi codices are not scrolls. They are books that were found near the village of Nag Hammadi in Egypt. They were written in Coptic and some earlier found fragments of GoT in Greek (Papyrus Oxyrhynchus). They are currently housed in the Museum of Egyptian Antiquity in Cairo, with the exception of the 2 Jung Codices.

The GoT is one of them.

And there is plenty of scholarly work that backs up my POV, including Aristotle himself. So I suggest you give him a read, get a clue and stop talking out of your arse.

LAFF

Gnos·ti·cism [nósti sìzz&#601;m]

n

early religion: a pre-Christian and early Christian religious movement teaching that salvation comes by learning esoteric spiritual truths that free humanity from the material world, believed in this movement to be evil

Yep!! some good read, than you
 

femi94ce

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Gnos·ti·cism [nósti sìzz&#601;m]

n

early religion: a pre-Christian and early Christian religious movement teaching that salvation comes by learning esoteric spiritual truths that free humanity from the material world, believed in this movement to be evil

Yep!! some good read, than you

Oh snore.

Tell me something I don't already know. FYI I've been gnostic for almost 30 years in this lifetime.

Look, if you want to debate the "evil of gnosticism" start your own thread in the debate section. I won't be joining you, because people like you have not a fµck!ng clue about gnosis. I repeat. Not. One. fµck!ng. Clue.

The OP started a discussion about the GoT. If you have something to say about some specific passage in the GoT, then I'm willing to entertain further discussion with you. Otherwise, well you get my drift.

LAFF
 

Sonofthemessiah

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Oh snore.

Tell me something I don't already know. FYI I've been gnostic for almost 30 years in this lifetime.

Look, if you want to debate the "evil of gnosticism" start your own thread in the debate section. I won't be joining you, because people like you have not a fµck!ng clue about gnosis. I repeat. Not. One. fµck!ng. Clue.

The OP started a discussion about the GoT. If you have something to say about some specific passage in the GoT, then I'm willing to entertain further discussion with you. Otherwise, well you get my drift.

LAFF

Your right about one thing, I don't know any thing about nastic and don't really want to. But if your going to debate people on these forms watch your stupid mouth and have respect if you know how.
 

femi94ce

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This isn't a debate thread.

I'll respect you if you'll kindly not use the word "evil" in the same sentence as "gnosticism". Please don't insult my intelligence and pretend that you didn't know that would be offensive.

If you can't restrain yourself on this point, I have nothing further to say to you.

LAFF
 

Sonofthemessiah

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This isn't a debate thread.

I'll respect you if you'll kindly not use the word "evil" in the same sentence as "gnosticism". Please don't insult my intelligence and pretend that you didn't know that would be offensive.

If you can't restrain yourself on this point, I have nothing further to say to you.

LAFF

Give me a break i'm not the one who wrote those words, it was taken from the Dictionary and thoses are the very words used to discribe gnostic. Now if you have a problem with the word you may want to find out why it was used to describe your belief. If you go to your dictionary you'll find what I posted to be true. Sorry if your offended but that's out there.
 

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OK. Fair enough.

The reasons for certain individuals and groups referring to gnosticism as "evil" are well documented. None of those reasons are valid IMO. The most prevalent reason for calling it "evil" has to do with the fact that gnostics do not recognize any earthly authority when it comes to direct experience of the divine. No priest, no written word, no intermediary can substitute for a personal and intimate acquaintance with divinity.

This idea was disturbing enough to Pope Innocent III that he instigated the only crusade of Christian against Christian in 1209 in southern France (the Albigensian Crusade). After killing his fellow Christians in large numbers, he ratified the Dominican Order, gave them the inquisitorial power of police, whereupon for the next 300 years they proceeded to hunt, torture and exterminate most of the remaining wretches who dared to hold such "evil" ideas in their hearts.

I'm having trouble parsing the church's attitude and actions toward gnositicism in terms of virtue.
But Islam behaves identically towards its own gnostic tradition. Sufis and Dervishes are persecuted even today.

I invite you to do more research into why gnostics are called "evil" by a group that won the argument by torturing and exterminating all those who opposed them. This prejudice persists today, as is evinced by your dictionary reference (don't know which dictionary you're using, but it's a gratuitous slur that doesn't actually explain what is gnosticism).

LAFF
 

Sonofthemessiah

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OK. Fair enough.

The reasons for certain individuals and groups referring to gnosticism as "evil" are well documented. None of those reasons are valid IMO. The most prevalent reason for calling it "evil" has to do with the fact that gnostics do not recognize any earthly authority when it comes to direct experience of the divine. No priest, no written word, no intermediary can substitute for a personal and intimate acquaintance with divinity.

This idea was disturbing enough to Pope Innocent III that he instigated the only crusade of Christian against Christian in 1209 in southern France (the Albigensian Crusade). After killing his fellow Christians in large numbers, he ratified the Dominican Order, gave them the inquisitorial power of police, whereupon for the next 300 years they proceeded to hunt, torture and exterminate most of the remaining wretches who dared to hold such "evil" ideas in their hearts.

I'm having trouble parsing the church's attitude and actions toward gnositicism in terms of virtue. But Islam behaves identically towards its own gnostic tradition. Sufis and Dervishes are persecuted even today.

I invite you to do more research into why gnostics are called "evil" by a group that won the argument by torturing and exterminating all those who opposed them. This prejudice persists today, as is evinced by your dictionary reference (don't know which dictionary you're using, but it's a gratuitous slur that doesn't actually explain what is gnosticism).

LAFF

I have a program by microsoft which is on CD. The program includes Encarta reference library as well. I do know a good deal of what you speak when it comes to religion and the damage to the world that has been done in it's name. I do hold to the word of God but i use a book that is as close to the dead sea scrolls. i do not hold to religion or what man has to say about the word. we all have been given the ability of understanding
 

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I have a program by microsoft which is on CD. The program includes Encarta reference library as well. I do know a good deal of what you speak when it comes to religion and the damage to the world that has been done in it's name. I do hold to the word of God but i use a book that is as close to the dead sea scrolls. i do not hold to religion or what man has to say about the word. we all have been given the ability of understanding

Spoken like a true gnostic.

I humbly beg your forgiveness for my abuse of you in this thread.

Peace.

LAFF
 

Sonofthemessiah

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Spoken like a true gnostic.

I humbly beg your forgiveness for my abuse of you in this thread.

Peace.

LAFF

I except and i thank you for having a real debate, one were we both leave feeling much better and have not spread hatred towards each other. I will do more research so that i understand your position better. You are right, I have no understanding of what the true meaning of gnostic is but hay!! i can learn.
 

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Does anyone have anything more to say about the Gospel of Thomas or even the Book of Enoch?
 

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Yeah!

Some of my favorite passages:

(51) His disciples said to him, "When will the repose of the dead come about, and when will the new world come?"
He said to them, "What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it."

(58) Jesus said, "Blessed is the man who has suffered and found life."

(70) Jesus said, "That which you have will save you if you bring it forth from yourselves. That which you do not have within you will kill you if you do not have it within you."

(80) Jesus said, "He who has recognized the world has found the body, but he who has found the body is superior to the world."

(84) Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you rejoice. But when you see your images which came into being before you, and which neither die not become manifest, how much you will have to bear!"

(106) Jesus said, "When you make the two one, you will become the sons of man, and when you say, 'Mountain, move away,' it will move away."

(111) Jesus said, "The heavens and the earth will be rolled up in your presence. And the one who lives from the living one will not see death." Does not Jesus say, "Whoever finds himself is superior to the world?"

Care to discuss, comment? I have my own thoughts about these. Some of them seem quite confusing. I can see why gnostics have been likened to early practitioners of depth psychology.

LAFF
 

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What particularly were you wanting to discuss about the GOT? I can see this discussion could easily be railroaded about the overzealous.
 

Sonofthemessiah

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Does anyone have anything more to say about the Gospel of Thomas or even the Book of Enoch?

I have the book of Enoch and i have several questions or issues about the book. One is no one seems to know who the author is. Two: is the books read on giants.

OT:5303: giants
nephiyl (nef-eel'); or nephil (nef-eel'); from OT:5307; properly, a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant:

This word is written only once in the original writing of the scrolls yet some how ends up in the KJB 11 times. Go figure.
 

MERICHRISTMAS

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Yeah!

Some of my favorite passages:

(51) His disciples said to him, "When will the repose of the dead come about, and when will the new world come?"
He said to them, "What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it."

(58) Jesus said, "Blessed is the man who has suffered and found life."

(70) Jesus said, "That which you have will save you if you bring it forth from yourselves. That which you do not have within you will kill you if you do not have it within you."

(80) Jesus said, "He who has recognized the world has found the body, but he who has found the body is superior to the world."

(84) Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you rejoice. But when you see your images which came into being before you, and which neither die not become manifest, how much you will have to bear!"

(106) Jesus said, "When you make the two one, you will become the sons of man, and when you say, 'Mountain, move away,' it will move away."

(111) Jesus said, "The heavens and the earth will be rolled up in your presence. And the one who lives from the living one will not see death." Does not Jesus say, "Whoever finds himself is superior to the world?"

Care to discuss, comment? I have my own thoughts about these. Some of them seem quite confusing. I can see why gnostics have been likened to early practitioners of depth psychology.

LAFF

Yes Yes I would very much like to discuss but I am a newbie to the versus and their meaning so please bare with me!

One thing about the sayings is that I am finding them to be very introspective. It seems (to me at least) that Jesus is telling us to look within ourselves. Truth, our connection to God is the spirit that resides within us (or should reside within us), but we wrap ourselves in sin (skin).

I ask, is this our Holy Spirit that fills us, teaches us and guides us?
 

MERICHRISTMAS

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What particularly were you wanting to discuss about the GOT? I can see this discussion could easily be railroaded about the overzealous.

All of them LOL! But we can start with 28 which is so sad. It looks as if man broke his heart.

(28) Jesus said, "I took my place in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in flesh. I found all of them intoxicated; I found none of them thirsty. And my soul became afflicted for the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will repent."
 

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(28) Jesus said, "I took my place in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in flesh. I found all of them intoxicated; I found none of them thirsty. And my soul became afflicted for the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will repent."

This saying seems to point directly to the parable of the prodigal son.

What I love about the parables is that they begin "The Kingdom of Heaven is like..." Present tense. Here and now. Not "Will be" but "IS".

Then, when you read the parable, it ends up sounding not very heavenly at all. Like the prodigal son, or the bridesmaids who forget to trim their lamp wicks, or the guests that decline an invitation to the nobleman's feast, or the steward who failed to multiply the Master's talents.

One of my mentors taught me to look within, to identify the characters in the story within my own life narrative. We are all, in some way, playing the prodigal child.

LAFF
 

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This saying seems to point directly to the parable of the prodigal son.

What I love about the parables is that they begin "The Kingdom of Heaven is like..." Present tense. Here and now. Not "Will be" but "IS".

Then, when you read the parable, it ends up sounding not very heavenly at all. Like the prodigal son, or the bridesmaids who forget to trim their lamp wicks, or the guests that decline an invitation to the nobleman's feast, or the steward who failed to multiply the Master's talents.

One of my mentors taught me to look within, to identify the characters in the story within my own life narrative. We are all, in some way, playing the prodigal child.

LAFF

Wow this is deeper than I thought but I see the connection to the parables.

I know I will have more questions.

Let's please continue to dicuss.
 

femi94ce

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Just anther note about the parables describing the Kingdom of Heaven in the present tense, Jesus says in several places in GoT essentially "The Kingdom is already spread upon the earth but you do not recognize it".

So I have to ask myself "Why can't I see it?"

The answer for me personally is "Because my view is obstructed".

Then the question comes in "Obstructed by what?"

If you can answer this question for yourself, then you can begin to remove the blockage.

LAFF
 

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Just anther note about the parables describing the Kingdom of Heaven in the present tense, Jesus says in several places in GoT essentially "The Kingdom is already spread upon the earth but you do not recognize it".

So I have to ask myself "Why can't I see it?"

The answer for me personally is "Because my view is obstructed".

Then the question comes in "Obstructed by what?"

If you can answer this question for yourself, then you can begin to remove the blockage.

LAFF

This is like Luke 17:21-22

21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”[a]
22 Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.

So far what I'm getting from reading GOT and in discussion, is that...

The "spirit" is within us if we can recognize it and use it, rely on it. It is our connection to the Kingdom of God. We can also seek out and connect to those who recognize their own spirit within themselves, for the Kingdom is all around us.

I like your assessment of it and how it's applied.

What is it that is in my flesh that prevents me from reaching my true potential... a deep bonded connection with God and his Kingdom and what are the things of this world that continue to blind me from seeing this in myself and others?

Could it be that we are so wrapped in sin, that it is so pervasive in our daily lives; cause lets be honest, just to make it through the day in our present society involves some level of active participation of sin whether we recognize it or not; could that be why we can't see it?

Maybe if we can consciously identify the sins we commit and make a valiant attempt to excise them out of our lives, we will be better able to identify the Kingdom within us?
 

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What is it that is in my flesh that prevents me from reaching my true potential... a deep bonded connection with God and his Kingdom and what are the things of this world that continue to blind me from seeing this in myself and others?

This is a very good question. I believe I have found the answer to this question, but you should find it for yourself.

I will give you a clue to my own answer: What is the nature of trauma and how does it function?

Could it be that we are so wrapped in sin, that it is so pervasive in our daily lives; cause lets be honest, just to make it through the day in our present society involves some level of active participation of sin whether we recognize it or not; could that be why we can't see it?

Maybe if we can consciously identify the sins we commit and make a valiant attempt to excise them out of our lives, we will be better able to identify the Kingdom within us?

I was hoping that you would bring this up. I don't believe that any conversation about the Kingdom can be had without addressing the issue of sin.

I think it would be helpful if we can agree on what sin is.

What is your definition?

LAFF
 

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This is a very good question. I believe I have found the answer to this question, but you should find it for yourself.

I will give you a clue to my own answer: What is the nature of trauma and how does it function?



I was hoping that you would bring this up. I don't believe that any conversation about the Kingdom can be had without addressing the issue of sin.

I think it would be helpful if we can agree on what sin is.

What is your definition?

LAFF

Well just right off the bat sin is any action be it in the physical or in spirit that is contrary to the teachings and direction of The Lord and Savior.
 

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Well just right off the bat sin is any action be it in the physical or in spirit that is contrary to the teachings and direction of The Lord and Savior.

If I may Meri, this is what sin means in hebrew

OT:2403: sin
chatta'ah (khat-taw-aw'); or chatta'th (khat-tawth'); from OT:2398; an offence (sometimes habitual sinfulness), and its penalty, occasion, sacrifice, or expiation; also (concretely) an offender:
 

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in all my years of studying i do not rememder seeing these verses.

1 John 5:16-17
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
NKJV
 

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If I may Meri, this is what sin means in hebrew

OT:2403: sin
chatta'ah (khat-taw-aw'); or chatta'th (khat-tawth'); from OT:2398; an offence (sometimes habitual sinfulness), and its penalty, occasion, sacrifice, or expiation; also (concretely) an offender:

No please post and expound we are talking about sin!
 

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Well just right off the bat sin is any action be it in the physical or in spirit that is contrary to the teachings and direction of The Lord and Savior.

I am partial to the Greek word for sin: hamartia = missing the mark.

So much of what we do is self-harm. Deliberate or unintentional, conscious or unconscious. We totally fail to see that when we direct harm outwards, the first casualty is ourselves.

This is why I believe sin is lethal - it's the death of a hundred thousand cuts. You can't continue over a lifetime to inflict harm on yourself, minute by minute, hour by hour, day after day and not expect to eventually die by your own hand.

LAFF
 

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