The Hawkins Family Church Issues!

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If he repented he cleaned it up, in God's eyesight, which is good enough for me. He will so the same for you and I also. What an amazing love, that anything we do, that because he died for our sins, if we ask and repent he wipes the slate clean.

How Amazing..a brand new mercy everyday.

Veman , if you asked for forgiveness last night and you awoke and opend your eyes this morning, God remembers no more of your sin, it is clean.

So if anything else give Walter Hawkins that much.

Now work on you, because I can't, I'm too busy trying to work on myself.
That is not what I meant.

How is Walter expected to clean up a church of a lifestyle he been living all his adult life.

Did Walter leave his lover at the end of his life?

He gonna say do as I say - not as I do?

Pastors set the example and tone. If he was gay all his life, how is he gonna be credible to his congregation that they should get rid of the gays in the church.
 
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Meeting her a couple times on a project you worked for. I don't
think is a fair assement 2 come to the conclusion she's just a biter
divorced woman...maybe she just didn't like you. I know Tramaine
personally she's a friend. Been knowning her since a child and worked
with her more than 2 times on a project. I worked & travel across the
country with the Hawkins....and I disagree with ur assement...Tramaine
has her ways like we all do but knowning her like I do..it sounds like
she didn't like you...As a gospel artist myself and not on the level of
Tramaine but sometimes I don't want to be bothered when people's
stop me...sometimes their are days I'm not jolly but do that mean I'm
bitter:no: You can't make no fair assement on a person on a couple
times meeting them or working with them?????? U say Tramaine is ((So))
bitter...she just a nonsense person and is about business!!! (deal with it)
it amazes me u can make all these assements and u said yourself u don't
know the people involved...when I know them personally including Obnixous
been knowing him since a child...we went to the same church and he's very messy!!:mad:


And another thing please speak the truth and only the truth.
Tramaine is happily married to a man name Tommy Richardson
they been married for almost 20 years now. So she not divorced
Now from Walter yes... but she remarried. Walter never remarried..
And 4 me 2 reveal what was said between Walter & his son it !!!!
Speaks volumes!!!(I know the family and don't have 2 wrongly decern from someone post.



@ CeCe thank U Sweetie 4 the support...I will address all the
others commets later.

She was cordial and had a heaviness to her personality 10 years ago when I interacted with her. TO me she was bitter. Nothing wrong with that.

Hey. Could have been the event she was doing. Could have been her flight. She was professional and not difficult. Just not happy.

You know her on a personal level and she never seemed that way to you. Great.

She is now married again and happy. Wonderful.

We all have our moments.
 
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Yes she is Metrolady its clear that Veman9605 don't know what she
talking about:mad: I just address that..As a gospel recording artist
myself who done been ripped off for royalties and concert money I know
perfectly well why Tramaine has the stance she does...and it has
nothing to do with being bitter & as her friend I resent that commet:disdain:
Walter. I said she was professional and on point with her money.

That she should be commended for. That was a compliment.

Gospel is the worst to be a professional in because the people sponsoring the concerts are often not professional. They are usually hobbyist. Or worst. Looking to make money off of your work without paying you. That is true in all of entertainement.

She did what she was supposed to do. She did a great show. She respectfully and professionally made the producers deliver what they were supposed to.

However, at that time, and she did a series of concerts for that project, she had a bitterness about her.

Aint nothing wrong with being bitter.

Maybe we are interpreting the word differently/

How about melancholy. Is that better.
 
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@ Veman I read a commet earlier 2day where u said to my post so what
The Hawkins payed for the church ?something to that effect..U must
of came back and realize u got it wrong after rereading my post...
and you cleaned the post up...............................:question:
I never said the Hawkins bought the church....I said Tramaine's
Mother Lois Davis (who I personally knew) Loaned Walter the money
for the first Love Alive Album and she assited with money for the
getting his first church (please get it right)

He loved his Mother in law dearly when she died Walter came
and excorted Tramaine 2 the funeral (and they were divorced)
then Him and Edwin sung her favorite song as a duet and brought
the house down......I said Lois Davis fronted the money , who
is Jamie Hawkins grandmother... not the Hawkins:struggle:
I interpret that to mean that Walter and his family put up the money to start the church. They paid for the church. The family, whether Hawkins or not, is the main reason that the church exists.

It costs money to have a church. Light bill has to be paid with cash.

However, the church should have evolved. Shouldn't the congregation and Board have something to say about who the next Pastor should be.

When people are dying, a lot of promises and requests are made in the emotion of the moment. A lot of times it is impossible, or not prudent, to keep those promises.

Hopefully, Jaime will do what is best for him.
 
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[I@ blessedk:hug: your post was just beautiful you truly understand the
delemina Jamie is end....What child wouldn't want to respect their
late fathers wishes...regardless to how people feel about Walter he
is still Jamie & Trystan father. This I know for a fact b/c I went to
see him..when Walter was sick Jamie was their for his father at his
house trying to help take care of him....I agree that maybe Jamie
should of probably started another Love Center.........

But b/4 Walter Hawkins died they named the street his church sit
on after him...It called Walter Hawkins Way ...Jamie flew in 4 the
dedication it was all in the news...and I' know for a fact that Jamie
wanted to try and preseve the orginal Love Center Church especially
after they named the street after his father..he wanted 2 hold on
2 all that especially since his Dad had requested it...Yes those is some
heavy big shoes to fill...but that's why Tramaine who had left Love Center
when she left and later divorced Walter years ago...came back and joined
Love Center to help her son when her son b/came the pastor and she said
she didn't care who didn't like it (You GO Tramaine) that's a mother I'd
go to bat for my kids 2..especially if they trying to do something right.



Another thing me and various other friends discussed that are insiders
of what going on their...even though Walter & various member of the
Hawkins family carried on the homosexual life style...and please don;t
get it twisted b/c some of the Hawkins family womens are gay (not
Tramaine) I won't name who...but Jamie didn't condone his family life
style and spoke out against it....As a friend of Jamie I'm so proud of
him and what he tried to do.........



Much Love 2 U Mertolady:hug: on ur post I love what u said about god's
Love and how we have a brand new mercy everyday. Thank God
he forgives !!!! and people ani't the judge b/c some counldn't get
over what you done....they will remember the time, the day and
the hour:shout:....Walter has done what we all must do lay down
and die and face god one day....I'm like you I'm to buzy trying to
make sure I'm straight.....instead of worrying and condeming a man
who from all a counts I've gotten realised he was wrong and made
his peace with god!!!!...You were so right when u said if he repented
he cleaned his life up.?..Amen 2 that...Now lets keep Jamie lifted in
prayer b/c he's got a long ways 2 go & with prayer I believe my ...
my little brother will make it.
[/I]



@ Mochagurl ur commet about you glad I I don't go to your parish
made me:laugh: through my anger!!! I know you was just kidding but yea
girl I be :Eye_anim: and listening!!! But in all honesty the Hawkins are
long time friends & extended family(some of them) I know what I know from being on the inside and they confided in me...
.I would of never repeated what was said between Jamie & his father if the family members I talked to hadn't told me it was alright 2 put it out there(tell it) I was told and set the record
straight..especially when Obnoxious was only giving bits & pieces of the story.
Walter Hawkins is a major part of our Culture. His music is timeless and will live on. You seem to think that this discussion, in particular my posts, is bashing that. I am not.

It seems that the desire to keep and protect that legacy, maybe keeping Jaime from building his own legacy.

I just wonder if in all of the craziness that comes with Death. All the craziness that comes with church folk, did anyone ever stop to consider what Jaime wants. What is best for Jaime. It seems he abruptly changed his life to take over his father's church. He was not a minster previously, and had other goals.

Or what the congregation wants.

Walter's legacy and accomplishments can be preserved with a professional dedicated minister. It does not have to be someone associated with the family.
 
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That might be the case for most. However, Walter started that church at the beginning of his Gospel Career when he was not that popular. Walter ministered to a lot of people who were different, involved in the street life, people who were judged and looked down upon, he opened his heart and church for them. Its all on the internet. Maybe you should read about it. A lot of this went on before the mega churches and probably before some of you were born. Just know your facts.


I think Jamie will still be pastor, as it was prophesied, its just not time now.

When you operate on God's agenda, it will be big and better, and remember it is said,

"The latter shall be greater than the first".
When Walter started that might be true.

Now we talking close to 40 years later.

There are some that attend cause of who Walter is. That is true in all churches. Some go for the minister, some go cause their family always went, some go cause it is convenient.

No one really know what God has prophesized. Cause we are not him.

Cause some one says God did it does not mean he did.

My point is Jamie lost his father. Someone who was important to him. The community lost an important leader, someone who helped many.

I believe I read someone at the funeral said, or prophesized, that Jamie will be the next pastor. That is unfair to Jamie.

Give Jamie space and let him decide what course his life will take.

And if he chooses to return to his previous life, don't use guilt to pressure him back.

If something goes wrong in Jamie's life, don't say it is because he ain't pastoring his father's church.

I am a mother of a son. And I am in entertainement. Not a star. But I earn a good living doing what I do. All my friends are in entertainment. My son sings in our shows. OK. It started when he was a baby cause I was to cheap to hire a baby sitter. I just took him with me. At 1 year old he got out of the stroller and started doing the show.

I say that to say. I go out of my way to make sure he finds something he loves to do and is passionate about.

I know well ministers who are in the business cause their family wanted them to. It don't turn out well.

Let Jamie, and his church, decide who to pastor.
 
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Walter. I said she was professional and on point with her money.

That she should be commended for. That was a compliment.

Gospel is the worst to be a professional in because the people sponsoring the concerts are often not professional. They are usually hobbyist. Or worst. Looking to make money off of your work without paying you. That is true in all of entertainement.

She did what she was supposed to do. She did a great show. She respectfully and professionally made the producers deliver what they were supposed to.

However, at that time, and she did a series of concerts for that project, she had a bitterness about her.

Aint nothing wrong with being bitter.

Maybe we are interpreting the word differently/

How about melancholy. Is that better.

I do know that Tramaine will not move unless she is paid, and I understand that, she charges 10,000 and up for a single appearance, and she wants her money before performing.

She could be bitter, Walter was the love of her life and she caught him with someone else, a man at that , I would be bitter too. SHe had children with this man, and probably looked away many times. That has to be hard to go through.

Jamie, is probably upset about his father's lifestyle and choices, but hey Walter Hawkins was still his dad at the end of the day.

SO I hope he does what is best for him, Veman, I did hear the prophecy and of course, we don't know if GOd literally said it himself, but still it was prophesied in his name. If its not true then the person who prophesies will have to answer to God, that's my belief.
 
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I do know that Tramaine will not move unless she is paid, and I understand that, she charges 10,000 and up for a single appearance, and she wants her money before performing.

She could be bitter, Walter was the love of her life and she caught him with someone else, a man at that , I would be bitter too. SHe had children with this man, and probably looked away many times. That has to be hard to go through.

Jamie, is probably upset about his father's lifestyle and choices, but hey Walter Hawkins was still his dad at the end of the day.

SO I hope he does what is best for him, Veman, I did hear the prophecy and of course, we don't know if GOd literally said it himself, but still it was prophesied in his name. If its not true then the person who prophesies will have to answer to God, that's my belief.
Tremaine is absolutely right to get her money up front. She requires a deposit. I do not remember if she requires a certified check or cash. If I was her, I would require those things. Gospel folks checks bounce.

James Cleveland personally counted his money before going on. I worked on a project with his manager. (Chile, he was a wonderful man, a fun man, and a QUEEN)

As for prophesying. This has been used to manipulate people for the ages. Remember, how Rasputin did it to the Czar and Russia.

Like you said Tremaine loved Walter and admired him. Walter did great things. His music is an important part of African American culture.

There are many people who have an interest in the church being run by Walter's son. However, Jamie may not have the temperament, or the passion to do it.

Saying it has been prophesied is manipulating him, it appears, into doing something he does not want to do.
 
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Another Californian here....

"Walter Hawkins speaks truth BTW! Love your post girl!

The Divorice was nasty at the time. I remember the local TV news being out
in the front of the church and Tramaine going off etc.

That was when the church was on Mac Author and High Street.

I was at those Love Alive Recordings too WH! I think one of them was at
Center of Hope.

Tramaine nearly had a nervous break down over it. But she and Walter reconciled and became friends again, partly for the kids sake.

She is Tramaine Richardson now. I think that they live in Sacramento
which is a little over an hour away. He's a school principal.

Jamie was embarrassed of Love Center because of all it was known for.

The church started out with some good intentions. They came from a very
holier then thou background and I think Walter hated the way a lot of people
were treated by the traditional holiness church and wanted to make a difference.

They claim Dad Cleveland ( Bishop EE Cleveland) supported them, but I wonder if he knew the
direction it would take, if he would have gone thru with it.

Dan Hawkins is not qualified either. He is so fried from drugs and Alcohol
abuse he can't even think straight. He was married to a white lady who
was into new age witch craft.
Ed is not a preacher and will tell you he has no interest in that.
I've been to his restaurant out in the Valley - the food is GREAT!
Lynette is the waitress :lashes:

NEWS FLASH:I understand that Jamie and Tramaine are opening a new church. They even have a name for it... Broadway something... Let me verify that one.

In my opinion, Love Center has to start over if it's ever going to change.
It is what it is. They have openly allowed any and everything to go for 35+years by the founder. I have personally seen men in drag there myself.
I have heard from many sources that he got it right with God before he passed. I am thankful for that.

I'll post more later...

.
 
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Another Californian here....

"Walter Hawkins speaks truth BTW! Love your post girl!

The Divorice was nasty at the time. I remember the local TV news being out
in the front of the church and Tramaine going off etc.

That was when the church was on Mac Author and High Street.

I was at those Love Alive Recordings too WH! I think one of them was at
Center of Hope.

Tramaine nearly had a nervous break down over it. But she and Walter reconciled and became friends again, partly for the kids sake.

She is Tramaine Richardson now. I think that they live in Sacramento
which is a little over an hour away. He's a school principal.

Jamie was embarrassed of Love Center because of all it was known for.

The church started out with some good intentions. They came from a very
holier then thou background and I think Walter hated the way a lot of people
were treated by the traditional holiness church and wanted to make a difference.

They claim Dad Cleveland ( Bishop EE Cleveland) supported them, but I wonder if he knew the
direction it would take, if he would have gone thru with it.

Dan Hawkins is not qualified either. He is so fried from drugs and Alcohol
abuse he can't even think straight. He was married to a white lady who
was into new age witch craft.
Ed is not a preacher and will tell you he has no interest in that.
I've been to his restaurant out in the Valley - the food is GREAT!
Lynette is the waitress :lashes:

NEWS FLASH:I understand that Jamie and Tramaine are opening a new church. They even have a name for it... Broadway something... Let me verify that one.

In my opinion, Love Center has to start over if it's ever going to change.
It is what it is. They have openly allowed any and everything to go for 35+years by the founder. I have personally seen men in drag there myself.
I have heard from many sources that he got it right with God before he passed. I am thankful for that.

I'll post more later...

.
I question if the congregation of Love Center want the change.

And knowing that Jaime and his momma had issues with the gayness of the church, I wonder if the moves Jaime made was out of revenge for his childhood embarrassment.

Love Center will survive when the congregation finds a minster they want and can support.
 
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Another Californian here....

"Walter Hawkins speaks truth BTW! Love your post girl!

The Divorice was nasty at the time. I remember the local TV news being out
in the front of the church and Tramaine going off etc.

That was when the church was on Mac Author and High Street.

I was at those Love Alive Recordings too WH! I think one of them was at
Center of Hope.

Tramaine nearly had a nervous break down over it. But she and Walter reconciled and became friends again, partly for the kids sake.

She is Tramaine Richardson now. I think that they live in Sacramento
which is a little over an hour away. He's a school principal.

Jamie was embarrassed of Love Center because of all it was known for.

The church started out with some good intentions. They came from a very
holier then thou background and I think Walter hated the way a lot of people
were treated by the traditional holiness church and wanted to make a difference.

They claim Dad Cleveland ( Bishop EE Cleveland) supported them, but I wonder if he knew the
direction it would take, if he would have gone thru with it.

Dan Hawkins is not qualified either. He is so fried from drugs and Alcohol
abuse he can't even think straight. He was married to a white lady who
was into new age witch craft.
Ed is not a preacher and will tell you he has no interest in that.
I've been to his restaurant out in the Valley - the food is GREAT!
Lynette is the waitress :lashes:

NEWS FLASH:I understand that Jamie and Tramaine are opening a new church. They even have a name for it... Broadway something... Let me verify that one.

In my opinion, Love Center has to start over if it's ever going to change.
It is what it is. They have openly allowed any and everything to go for 35+years by the founder. I have personally seen men in drag there myself.
I have heard from many sources that he got it right with God before he passed. I am thankful for that.

I'll post more later...

.
I question if the congregation of Love Center want the change.

And knowing that Jaime and his momma had issues with the gayness of the church, I wonder if the moves Jaime made was out of revenge for his childhood embarrassment.

Love Center will survive when the congregation finds a minster they want and can support.

Here is Tramaine's website.

Lady Tramaine Hawkins Ministry - Welcome
 
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Another Californian here....

"Walter Hawkins speaks truth BTW! Love your post girl!

The Divorice was nasty at the time. I remember the local TV news being out
in the front of the church and Tramaine going off etc.

That was when the church was on Mac Author and High Street.

I was at those Love Alive Recordings too WH! I think one of them was at
Center of Hope.

Tramaine nearly had a nervous break down over it. But she and Walter reconciled and became friends again, partly for the kids sake.

She is Tramaine Richardson now. I think that they live in Sacramento
which is a little over an hour away. He's a school principal.

Jamie was embarrassed of Love Center because of all it was known for.

The church started out with some good intentions. They came from a very
holier then thou background and I think Walter hated the way a lot of people
were treated by the traditional holiness church and wanted to make a difference.

They claim Dad Cleveland ( Bishop EE Cleveland) supported them, but I wonder if he knew the
direction it would take, if he would have gone thru with it.

Dan Hawkins is not qualified either. He is so fried from drugs and Alcohol
abuse he can't even think straight. He was married to a white lady who
was into new age witch craft.
Ed is not a preacher and will tell you he has no interest in that.
I've been to his restaurant out in the Valley - the food is GREAT!
Lynette is the waitress :lashes:

NEWS FLASH:I understand that Jamie and Tramaine are opening a new church. They even have a name for it... Broadway something... Let me verify that one.

In my opinion, Love Center has to start over if it's ever going to change.
It is what it is. They have openly allowed any and everything to go for 35+years by the founder. I have personally seen men in drag there myself.
I have heard from many sources that he got it right with God before he passed. I am thankful for that.

I'll post more later...

.

Thanks sherrod

Thank you for ur kind commet sherrod...and your post is the absoulte truth.

It's nice to talk 2 another like Californian like me who was there like
me and can attest that all I'm saying is true.....U are right Tramaine
does lives in Sacramento with her husband Tommy!!!!.. I knew Dad -
Cleveland personally 2....and I no Dad Cleveland didn't know the church
would go that way b/c he preached against everything they were doing far as their lifestyles.



And you and Metrolady was right she was bitter during that time
when her and Walter seprated and divorced who wouldn;t be.I was
taking issues with Verm when she was saying she was still a bitter
divorced woman...etc....when Tramaine has moved on from that. She
had Walter to produce a couple of her records after they divorced.
Tramaine Live......(Walter Hawkins) produced that and sang with her on it...I could name a lot of other things they worked
together on.



Yes the Hawkins came came from GOGIC like me might of fact I was
a memeber (at one while) of the church they were all at Esphesian
COGIC Dad Cleveland Church...COGIC is strict and Walter & them
resented it....But Mother Mamie Hawkins brought them up in COGIC
(their mom)....... Sherrod u right about the churches they were at
one was on McAruthur I still remember the address :laugh:I think it was
8901 Mc Aruthur Blvd....that place use to be Bishop Ray Mack church (now thats an interesting topic as well).....




And you was right about Tramaine she was distraught and even
talked to the press when that happened between her and Walter
she did talk to the local news and she did a print article at that time
for the Oakland Tribune......YES one of the recording was at Center
Of Hope...Tramaine's Aunt's church Bishop Ernestine Cleveland Reems
Dickerson....Tramaine told me and others personally that after they
divorced when Walter would come around to see the kids she would
snap him up!!!....she said Walter would say why can't we be friends?


They worked it out...and as u said they had been reconciled. Thats
why I took issue of her being painted as a bitter woman, and bitter
divorced woman at that ...like her life had stopped. Tramaine is a
wife and a grandmother.....I wouldn't of been a true friend if I hadn';t
spoke out of the un truths that was being spoke about her....as I said
prior I've sung and did concerts with the Hawkins for many years. Walter
produced our 1st album...so of course I was going to come out swinging
especially @ some one just talking and don't them personally and not
telling the truth verses those of us who know them personally and know
the truth...I've traveled all across the country with them in concerts..
been in recordings with them......so I think I would know.....


:laugh: You right about Daniel I'll just leave that along....& Edwin
yes Love Center was way out their you could see some of everything
in their drag queens etc...And you right I know personally Walter got
it straight with god another reason why I was told 2 tell what I know
In this thread it's like even if you repented to god...You still not good enough.. Walter made his peace with god (god forgives) I know that for a fact personally b/c I'm on the inside.




Jamie had said sunday when he stepped down he was going to start another church...I'm praying for him wishing & him .. nothing but the best..Love Center the way it is been a eye sore
2 the city 4 for years ..So sometimes you do have 2 start a new .Verm saying that Jamie may not have the temperament or the passion... to pastor.. well look like that ani't true!!!!!!


 
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Thanks sherrod

Thank you for ur kind commet sherrod...and your post is the absoulte truth.

It's nice to talk 2 another like Californian like me who was there like
me and can attest that all I'm saying is true.....U are right Tramaine
does lives in Sacramento with her husband Tommy!!!!.. I knew Dad -
Cleveland personally 2....and I no Dad Cleveland didn't know the church
would go that way b/c he preached against everything they were doing

far as their lifestyles.

And you and Metrolady was right she was bitter during that time
when her and Walter seprated and divorced who wouldn;t be.I was
taking issues with Verm when she was saying she was still a bitter
divorced woman...etc....when Tramaine had moved on from that. She
had Walter to produce a couple of her records after they divorced.
Tramaine Live......(Walter Hawkins) produced that and sang with
her in it....I could name a lot of other things they worked 2 gether on



Yes the Hawkins came came from GOGIC like me might of fact I was
a memeber (at one while) of the church they were all at Esphesian
COGIC Dad Cleveland Church...COGIC is strict and Walter & them
resented it....But Mother Mamie Hawkins brought them up in COGIC
(their mom)....... Sherrod u right about the churches they were at
one was on McArthur I still remember the address :laugh:I think it was
8901 Mc Aruthur Blvd....that place use to be Bishop Ray Mack church
(now that an interesting topic as well)...



And you was right about Tramaine she was distraught and even
talked to the press when that happened between her and Walter
she did talk to the local news and she did a print article at that time
for the Oakland Tribune......YES one of the recording was at Center
Of Hope...Tramaine's Aunt's church Bishop Ernestine Cleveland Reems
Dickerson....Tramaine told me and others personally that after they
divorced when Walter would come around to see the kids she would
snap him up!!!....she said Walter would say why can't we be friends?


They worked it out...and as u said they had been reconciled. Thats
why I took issue of her being painted as a bitter woman, and bitter
divorced woman at that ...like her life had stopped. Tramaine is a
wife and a grandmother.....I wouldn't of been a true friend if I hadn';t
spoke out of the un truths that was being spoke about her....as I said
prior I've sung and did concerts with the Hawkins for many years. Walter
produced our 1st album...so of course I was going to come out swinging
especially @ some one just talking and don't them personally and not
telling the truth verses those of us who know them personally and know
the truth...I've traveled all across the country with them in concerts..
been in recordings with them......so I think I would know.....


:laugh: You right about Daniel I'll just leave that along....& Edwin
yes Love Center was way out their you could see some of everything
in their drag queens etc...And you right I know personally Walter got
it straight with god another reason why I was told 2 tell what I know
In this thread it's like even if you repented to god...You still not good
enough...Walter made his peace with god (god forgives) I know that for a fact personally I'm on the inside.




Jamie had said sunday when he stepped down he was going to start another church...I'm praying for him wishing & him .. nothing but the best..Love Center the way it is been a eye sore
2 the y to the city 4 for years ..So sometimes you do have 2 start a new .Verm saying that Jamie may not have the temperament or the passion... to pastor.. well look like that ani't true!!!!!!


Walter. I was unclear about when I Tremaine did a project I was associated with. That was over 10 years ago. I cleared it up. All yall said she had some bitterness issues in the past. She moved on on and that is good.

Jamie starting another church is not an indicator of his having the temperament and passion for. There are lots of ministers in the profession that do not have that temperament or a passion for it.

The Cogic tradition of sons inheriting the churches, and following in father's, or family foot steps, is just not fair to the sons.

Walter Hawkins been dead for under a year. His son may not be ready to make such a life changing decision. I wonder on a sub conscious level if his momma, and others realize now would be the perfect time to get him into it.

A know a minister who's son got arrested in college for a Frat prank. It resulted in his being caught with stolen goods. His father a prominent minister would not bail him out until he promised to be a minister. He did. And you can tell, even after 25 years, he would rather do something else. Alcoholism, philandering and other pain was caused because his family pressured him into a occupation that is not hsi first choice.
 
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Thanks sherrod

Thank you for ur kind commet sherrod...and your post is the absoulte truth.

It's nice to talk 2 another like Californian like me who was there like
me and can attest that all I'm saying is true.....U are right Tramaine
does lives in Sacramento with her husband Tommy!!!!.. I knew Dad -
Cleveland personally 2....and I no Dad Cleveland didn't know the church
would go that way b/c he preached against everything they were doing far as their lifestyles.



And you and Metrolady was right she was bitter during that time
when her and Walter seprated and divorced who wouldn;t be.I was
taking issues with Verm when she was saying she was still a bitter
divorced woman...etc....when Tramaine has moved on from that. She
had Walter to produce a couple of her records after they divorced.
Tramaine Live......(Walter Hawkins) produced that and sang with her on it...I could name a lot of other things they worked
together on.



Yes the Hawkins came came from GOGIC like me might of fact I was
a memeber (at one while) of the church they were all at Esphesian
COGIC Dad Cleveland Church...COGIC is strict and Walter & them
resented it....But Mother Mamie Hawkins brought them up in COGIC
(their mom)....... Sherrod u right about the churches they were at
one was on McAruthur I still remember the address :laugh:I think it was
8901 Mc Aruthur Blvd....that place use to be Bishop Ray Mack church (now thats an interesting topic as well).....




And you was right about Tramaine she was distraught and even
talked to the press when that happened between her and Walter
she did talk to the local news and she did a print article at that time
for the Oakland Tribune......YES one of the recording was at Center
Of Hope...Tramaine's Aunt's church Bishop Ernestine Cleveland Reems
Dickerson....Tramaine told me and others personally that after they
divorced when Walter would come around to see the kids she would
snap him up!!!....she said Walter would say why can't we be friends?


They worked it out...and as u said they had been reconciled. Thats
why I took issue of her being painted as a bitter woman, and bitter
divorced woman at that ...like her life had stopped. Tramaine is a
wife and a grandmother.....I wouldn't of been a true friend if I hadn';t
spoke out of the un truths that was being spoke about her....as I said
prior I've sung and did concerts with the Hawkins for many years. Walter
produced our 1st album...so of course I was going to come out swinging
especially @ some one just talking and don't them personally and not
telling the truth verses those of us who know them personally and know
the truth...I've traveled all across the country with them in concerts..
been in recordings with them......so I think I would know.....


:laugh: You right about Daniel I'll just leave that along....& Edwin
yes Love Center was way out their you could see some of everything
in their drag queens etc...And you right I know personally Walter got
it straight with god another reason why I was told 2 tell what I know
In this thread it's like even if you repented to god...You still not good enough.. Walter made his peace with god (god forgives) I know that for a fact personally b/c I'm on the inside.




Jamie had said sunday when he stepped down he was going to start another church...I'm praying for him wishing & him .. nothing but the best..Love Center the way it is been a eye sore
2 the city 4 for years ..So sometimes you do have 2 start a new .Verm saying that Jamie may not have the temperament or the passion... to pastor.. well look like that ani't true!!!!!!



You are most welcome! I've been reading your "TEA" and said to myself "I got to get in on all the fun" :rotfl:

Like you said, Tramaine is not bitter. She is very serious and don't take no crap. She's been around the barn too many times and knows the business.

Okay yall, let Walt and I have some Bay area conversation for a minute :pdance:

About Ernestine, it's my understanding that she no longer married to "Dickerson"? I was told she has left him. I haven't been to her church in years but they tell me it's a shell of what it use to be since her son took it. I went to her "50 years of ministry" celebration at the Oracle. That turned out great (I thought).

Have you heard Lynette sing lately? GIRL, her voice is shot! You hear me??? She use to bring the house down but her voice is just horrible now! What happen? I heard it was all that smoking??? And what is she doing living out there in the valley now with all her sisters and Edwin? Why aint she with Reginald? Something up with that.

Speaking of Ray Mack, he is a mess too lol! I hear his wife is not well and is very sick again. His Sunday night service use to be jumpin' but they tell me it's really gone down.

So you think COGIC is still strict? I grew up when it was STRICT!.To me, they let anything go now. Look at Bishop Macklin :freaked-out: for example and all the rest of them Bishops living lose and on the down low. Really, what can they say about the Hawkins now?

And about Yvette, what did Mother Langston think of the direction her daughter took? I know she didn't raise her like that! It breaks my heart to see what has become of so many who grew up in the church. Yvette has a voice that is just out of this world! Can't nobody sing "Special Gift" like she can OK!!! They had that one singer take her place at Walter's memorial concert and she sounded a mess! I think her name was Kathy...? Some of those other singers were just butchering his songs! IMO, Donnie and Karen were the only ones who did the songs justice. The rest were down right AWFUL!

Back to the Love Center Split, I heard that it started when one of the ministers &/or board members was trying to pick up on the Keyboard player (can't think of his name) on the web. The kybd player saved all the info. and took it Jamie and he went OFF!! I hear Jamie also trying to put the choir director out too (R.W) and he's gone a lot traveling with secular artist.

I also wonder how this is going to effect the Music and Arts Seminar conference this year! Walter is gone and now Bishop Moales and now this split. This is going to be difficult IMO.

Speaking of Kenneth Moales, he said at the funeral " IF I BE A LYING PROPHET, GOD STRIKE ME or TAKE ME.. (or something to that effect) , and it wasn't but a few months later and he was GONE! I never knew what to make of that one!!


,

Please Keep us posted on what you hear!!!!!!
 
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I sure will sherrod I should be in the bed now..I'm leaving later on this evening to go take care of one of my sisters who is having a major surgery monday so I'll be gone for a few weeks from here but let me address a few of ur questions all those I can't address now we will talk when I get back
(got to rush now) done took some sleep medicine and its staring 2 kick in ...Yea Girl its sad about Lynette Voice it's just aboout gone. They
talking about it all on youtube and other places I done gone....
Its the smoking and she got severe diabettes...Lynette almost died a few years ago she was so sick from it...she can't hit those high notes. and
seems to have trouble just trying to sing......(Its Sad) b/c that girl
could blow her behind off...I used to love to hear her sing...


But as Edwin taught us in a seminar worshop he said smoking is no good for a singer be it gospel or secular....... and diabette does things to the vocal cords. I remember in a seminar class Edwin expressed this to us and he
brought up his friend Dionne Warrick he told us how her voice had went
down several octatives b/c she smokes he said she use to be a beautiful
alto know she almost like a bass..He stress!!!!



Her and Reginold Steven is not together (some thing we will talk in p.m)
chille she moved in to Walter & Edwin house in Ripon (where Walter died
at) Carol and Feddie lives their 2.....Girl strange u said that about Kenneth
Moales b/c you know how church folks is ..they were saying thats why
he dropped dead b/c he wasn't right.....they said he was a lying prophet
so god took him out....I'm not gone lie...I was at Walter Funeral and when he
he said that then a few month later he dropped dead...I though about what
he had said......he had said he was going to come back and help Love Center
until it get on its feet...a lot of folks was appaled at that....they said
he ought to had been trying to get them homosexual and lesbians straight and saved.....



I must say I was really suprised that after Walter died CeCe Winans came to
Love Center to minster to the people...what could she possibly say
since she said she's against the lifestyle 2 (Blank-Stare)...Girl Mother
Langston Left Cogic and went joined her daughter Yvette church,,,Cogic
was out raged at her..for years since I was a child(b/c I know Yvette
and her mom) her mom was a devout well world renoun evangelsit and
she taught against gays etc....then she went b/4 she died jioned them
let her husband church where she was the 1st lady and joined her
daughter church which was full of homosexuals and lesbian....and Yvette
got up and bragged about it at the funeral...I got so much 2 say can't tell
it all but I will come back and put all this and more in the Gospel Tea thread


Yvette tells a story where she a was trying to convert her mom over to
the gospel of inclusion...she said they were talking one day...and she told
her Mom Ruth Langton god don't care if u gay/ She said her mom said
shut up yvette...yvette kept on...she gave her mother a bible scripture
mama langston said didn't I tell u to shut up!!! then Yvette said gays
lesbians etc all belong to god.....SHE SAID HER MOM HOLLERED OUT YVETTE
DIDN'T I TELL YOU TO SHUT UP GIRL..Yvette said why?????? Mama Ruth
Langston said b/c you are starting to make sense to me:eek: Honey she
packed up left COGIC AND joined her daughters church of inclusion..Cogic
went off her a lot of them wouldn't even come to her funeral..(so that what
yvette mom thought) yvette talked her into joining it....Yvette got her
voice from her mom ...they sound just alike...the last recording they
did b/4 MoTHER Langston died I couldn't tell one from the other.....


ANd Yvette can blow her behind off!!...You right Cogic is pretty weak now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the Bishop been caught in scandle and they doing everything under the
sun..thats why I stopped going to the convocation it was sad of the Bishop
who would have outside women their be in the hotel with them...while their
wives in another...one of them just died....God is cleaning house he's tired
of all these hypocritcal folks!!! especially leaders.

Yes the church of Bishop Ernestine C leveland Reems Dickerson is a
shell of what it use 2 be.....I use to go their..years ago but I had to
stop b./c her son was sleeping all through the church....Pastor Reems
would get up in the pulpit and say u silly women would you please stop sleeping with my son....stop buying him things trying to get him . This
was before he married his wife MARia..Then after he married her he
cheated on her....was getting ready to bring his other woman in the
church those he was still married....I said I'm out!!!!..I don't know every
thing....I didn't know Pastor Reems was seperated from Bro Dickerson
I will do some investagating!!!..(but her cheating son Brondon is the pastor
that why the church is down) I saw Pastor Reems recently and she was telling me babay come on back we need u Brondon needs u.....I was
like no way I can't sit up under that womanizer:no: I love Pastor Reems
but her son ani't right treat his wife like a dog...holler and scream at her
calls her crazy....UGH!!!



Girl the Seminar and arts chior is a shell of what it use to be so Walter
dying shouldn't affect it that much...Just like Love Center....the church
had been went down on the member ship....you could throw a ball
in their and hit nobody it was so empty...but then when Walter died
they came back just for the funeral...and thats when Edwin went off
and said no we don't need u.....

Girl me and you got so much 2 talk about I can't write it all now...
Bishop Apostle Ray Mack:twitcy: you say his wife Gerry ani;t doing well
didn't know that...but god don't like ugly....he married her after he had
went with this other woman for year..dump the other woman she had a
break down and she died in 2006 of a broken heart....that church use 2
rock thats another ghost town!!!!..He sleeping all through the choir
got babies glaore with several women at the church some he would ship
off to Arkansa to try and cover it.up....girl when I get back we will finish our bayarea talk............I'll be back in 2...-3 weeks....any other stuff I missed
we will chat when I come back........


Yes I will keep you all posted....I'll probably come back with a tea kettle
of tea.....my bestfriend was a memeber of love center 4 15 years till she
got tired of her husband and left...she not gay nor her husband...they did
have a few their who wasn't in that life style....she went b/c she meet
Edwin years ago and he invited her 2 come sing in the Love Center Choir
she sang traveled and recorded with them....She a nice little Tea pot.hehe
I'll be checking with her and my other sources!!!


I'll come back singing like a mocking bird with tea:twitcy: TTYL when I get back.......say a prayer for my sister she make it through the surgery...
I certainly would appreciate.... Thanks my Bayarea Sister..LOL
 
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Hope your sister is well Walter.

COGIC had to change. A lot of the kids who grew up in it in their 40-50 got educated and could see through the lifestyle. Thus they had to relax a lot of dress and behavioral standards. Then here comes the internet and tabloids. Patterson family antics showed the hypocrisy in the denomination.
 
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Thank You Verman:hug: I appeciate your words of comfort & kindness...(I'm waiting on my ride now 2 the airport)Say a Prayer for me Sis I have a safe flight.(I have nothing personally against
you)...SMILE.. I'll talk to you all when I get back.
 
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Okay. I wrote a long post and decided to delete it. Let me just do quick bullet points:

- Calling Tremaine "bitter" based on a 10-year old experience isn't cool. There are people who read these threads and believe every lie posted.


- Walter was a great man -- not just a great artist. Regardless of any struggle he had, he loved God, and he showed a great deal of compassion and patience toward others who are typically rejected in traditional church circles. If you ever spent any time with Walter Hawkins at all, you'd understand why people followed him. It wasn't just because of his name or notoriety. The way he talked about Jesus Christ and his ability to listen.... He was a very cool guy.


- I know this isn't always the case, but one of the reasons PKs "inherit" their father's ministries is because their life-long experiences groom them for the role. Unless you grew up as a pastor's child, you wouldn't understand. The way it typically works is at least one child naturally inherits their parents' burden/passion for ministry. Over the years, they watch their parents' struggles, they observe the needs of the people, the needs of the pastors, the contradictions, they go through growing pains of their own (bitterness, anger, resentment, and then unconditional love). Like I said, it's nearly impossible to appreciate if you are not a PK. I wish J. Hawkins the very best.



 
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Okay. I wrote a long post and decided to delete it. Let me just do quick bullet points:

- Calling Tremaine "bitter" based on a 10-year old experience isn't cool. There are people who read these threads and believe every lie posted.

- Walter was a great man -- not just a great artist. Regardless of any struggle he had, he loved God, and he showed a great deal of compassion and patience toward others who are typically rejected in traditional church circles. If you ever spent any time with Walter Hawkins at all, you'd understand why people followed him. It wasn't just because of his name or notoriety. The way he talked about Jesus Christ and his ability to listen.... He was a very cool guy.

- I know this isn't always the case, but one of the reasons PKs "inherit" their father's ministries is because their life-long experiences groom them for the role. Unless you grew up as a pastor's child, you wouldn't understand. The way it typically works is at least one child naturally inherits their parents' burden/passion for ministry. Over the years, they watch their parents' struggles, they observe the needs of the people, the needs of the pastors, the contradictions, they go through growing pains of their own (bitterness, anger, resentment, and then unconditional love). Like I said, it's nearly impossible to appreciate if you are not a PK. I wish J. Hawkins the very best.
I am not a PK, but there are PKs in my family. I had an uncle who is now deceased, and was very prominent in the ministry all over the country - knew dignataries, presidents, etc. Both of his sons are ministers. In the city in which I live, a church is being "co-pastored" by two brothers - their now deceased father was the minister. Joel Osteen is the son of a minister. All of Billy Graham's kids are ministers -well technically, not the girls since they are Southern Baptist, but for all intents and purposes, they are all ministers. Fred Price's son now pastos his church. The list goes on and on . My point is, I feel that many PK's feel the ministry is just the "family business." You are not "called" merely because you are so-and-so's kid.
 
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Thanks, everybody for the delicious tea ! I haven't lived in the Bay area in many years but when I was there, I am not sure why we never went to the Love Center but we all loved the Hawkins music and Tremaine's music. I had a friend who still lives in Oakland; I may check on him and ask him why he never took us there. I think I asked WH about a young man I met who claimed to be one of the Hawkins - he was a talented musician but who knows ?
 
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Hope your sister is well Walter.

COGIC had to change. A lot of the kids who grew up in it in their 40-50 got educated and could see through the lifestyle. Thus they had to relax a lot of dress and behavioral standards. Then here comes the internet and tabloids. Patterson family antics showed the hypocrisy in the denomination.

What "Patterson Family Antics". The only Patterson scandal that I know of is the Former Presiding Bishop J.O Patterson,Jr. fathering multiple children outside of his marriage,and him possibly being involved in his brother-in-laws (His wifed brother,also Bishop Mason son) mysterious death in 1966,in order to ensure that he would be the next Presiding Bishop.
 
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Walter. I was unclear about when I Tremaine did a project I was associated with. That was over 10 years ago. I cleared it up. All yall said she had some bitterness issues in the past. She moved on on and that is good.

Jamie starting another church is not an indicator of his having the temperament and passion for. There are lots of ministers in the profession that do not have that temperament or a passion for it.

The Cogic tradition of sons inheriting the churches, and following in father's, or family foot steps, is just not fair to the sons.

Walter Hawkins been dead for under a year. His son may not be ready to make such a life changing decision. I wonder on a sub conscious level if his momma, and others realize now would be the perfect time to get him into it.

A know a minister who's son got arrested in college for a Frat prank. It resulted in his being caught with stolen goods. His father a prominent minister would not bail him out until he promised to be a minister. He did. And you can tell, even after 25 years, he would rather do something else. Alcoholism, philandering and other pain was caused because his family pressured him into a occupation that is not hsi first choice.
Again you don't know what you are talking about. Spoken like someone who is not COGIC. Per your usual self.

Most churches regardless of race or denomination, consider passing the church on to a family member. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it does not. Just like businesses, white men pass their companies down to their family heirs. But I don't see you typing against them.

Anywho...

@Walter Hawkins how is Jamie and his wife doing today? I thought I read that she was ill last year. What made me even find this thread is because I was missing how we used to be able to go to Church and praise the Lord, just a mere 13 months ago.
Last year, I think it was January 2020, Jamie and his wife attended the COGIC church I attended (before corona). They were so humble and just wanted to blend in with the congregation.
But you of all people know how we COGIC people feel about anyone related to the Clark Sisters, Andrae Crouch or the Hawkins Family. You are going to be acknowledged! lol
 
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Hope your sister is well Walter.

COGIC had to change. A lot of the kids who grew up in it in their 40-50 got educated and could see through the lifestyle. Thus they had to relax a lot of dress and behavioral standards. Then here comes the internet and tabloids. Patterson family antics showed the hypocrisy in the denomination.
You write like someone who was rejected being a superintendent in the jurisdiction, so YOU are the bitter one. Projecting much.

Or you are not even COGIC. But can tell us about us when you are NOT a part of us.
 
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What "Patterson Family Antics". The only Patterson scandal that I know of is the Former Presiding Bishop J.O Patterson,Jr. fathering multiple children outside of his marriage,and him possibly being involved in his brother-in-laws (His wifed brother,also Bishop Mason son) mysterious death in 1966,in order to ensure that he would be the next Presiding Bishop.
I heard about Bishop JO Patterson gathering a son Benjamin Jimerson philips with Jesse Jimerson Philips
 

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