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What is the difference between Mariah Carey and Halsey?

ogwumike

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Why do black folks in the United States accept Mariah Carey as a "black woman", but consider Halsey a "biracial", "white woman, "spicy white woman"?

Phenotypically they both look like white women.
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Halsey
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funnelcake

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No one is checking for Halsey enough to wanna claim her or argue over her racial identity. Maybe LSA but LSA has an obsession with who is/isn't black [enough] depending on gender, time of day, the race of the persons SO
 

Ambi D

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Mariah’s vocal acrobatics and personality get her an unquestionable seat at the table. Also, she came out at a time where it was more common for biracial people to identify as just black.
 
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bullish af

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The difference is that Halsey called herself a BLACK WOMAN. Mariah Carey, Queen, has never said that.

“I look like a white girl, but I don’t feel like one. I’m a black woman,” the singer explained. “So it’s been weird navigating that. When I was growing up I didn’t know if I was supposed to love TLC or Britney.”

^^* this is some sh!t only a white person would say. Everyone knows black girls listened to both without problems.
 

AgnesGooch

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Mariah does not look like a white woman. I don't know what white people you are around. Mariah and her sibliings look like mixed race people. And Mariah's dad is black not mixed. And no don't tell me about buh buh buh the venezuelan great grandfather or whatever. Her dad was a black man with a white woman who had mixed kids. Halsely's dad is mixed/biracial/has a 100% white mother.

Plus Mariah can actually sing.

I don't know many black people who consider Mariah "black" anyway. Most people know she is mixed and has a white mom.
 

LaGrandeDame

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Actually, there were many people who resented Meems for being pushed to the forefront because they felt as if she was benefitting from biracial privilege (the tragic mulatta slant that shaped her image in the first half of her career didn't help matters), so I'm not sure where LSA is getting this "Mariah was universally accepted" narrative from (and don't bother sharing that Ebony cover story that's been shared a million times, as I'm speaking from the experience of witnessing her debut and subsequent superstardom in real time). I will say that her poking fun at that said slant during The Emancipation of Mimi era (with the help of Spike Lee, who directed that skit) went a long way into burying it for good.

From what I've seen of the Halsey girl, she's a garden variety hipster without a sense of self who uses the multiracial card to make up for her lack of personality and individuality. The try-hard desperation oozes from her, which is why she's made zero impression in spite of all of these stunts and following music trends.
 

Msangelbaby

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1. We’ve seen both sides of Mariah’s family and it (should) leaves no question as to what she “is.”

2. Mariah has embraced her black side throughout her entire career and it was never phony.

3. The Mariah Carey story has been told time and time again. Yes, she is biracial but she caught hell for having a black father. For once in her life, she was embraced by a side. After having the childhood she did, I don’t think it was wrong for black people to just go ahead and embrace her. She has never done or said anything out of line racially. She also never begged anyone to accept her. It came naturally.
 

Kishonte

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Actually, there were many people who resented Meems for being pushed to the forefront because they felt as if she was benefitting from biracial privilege (the tragic mulatta slant that shaped her image in the first half of her career didn't help matters), so I'm not sure where LSA is getting this "Mariah was universally accepted" narrative from (and don't bother sharing that Ebony cover story that's been shared a million times, as I'm speaking from the experience of witnessing her debut and subsequent superstardom in real time). I will say that her poking fun at that said slant during The Emancipation of Mimi era (with the help of Spike Lee, who directed that skit) went a long way into burying it for good.

From what I've seen of the Halsey girl, she's a garden variety hipster without a sense of self who uses the multiracial card to make up for her lack of personality and individuality. The try-hard desperation oozes from her, which is why she's made zero impression in spite of all of these stunts and following music trends.
You can tell a lot of these are either too young to even know what the hell they are talking about or not Black American... everything you said is true and I was born in the early 90s. Mariah’s identity was alway questioned or given the side eye from what I remember.

ETA: plus idk why these chirren always try to make these “profound” conclusions based of the past instead of focusing on what’s present. There’s always threads/comments like “well such did or was this and that back in the day so why can’t(insert current celebrity)?” I’ve seen it a lot in those Cardi B/WAP threads when they try to bring up old sh!t like Lil Kim’s music. The fact of the matter is that in the past, people weren’t super “woke” nor
was there social platforms that basically fed people opinions that they think they should have. Lil Kim wasn’t supported by a large portion of the community, as well as Mariah. However as time passed and things change(aka TPTB found new ways to exploit and capitalize of off certain aspects of our community) these individuals ended up leaving a mark that has been duplicated ever since. If the people of today were more creative and innovative with their work, you won’t need to constantly compare them to the past. Just my two cents.
 
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KNTY 4 NEWS

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Mixed black people who lean further into their black heritage tend to be more accepted by the culture. Halsey has never attempted to embrace the culture outside of simply claiming her father is black
 

KrazyAngel

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Mariah does not look like a white woman. I don't know what white people you are around. Mariah and her sibliings look like mixed race people. And Mariah's dad is black not mixed. And no don't tell me about buh buh buh the venezuelan great grandfather or whatever. Her dad was a black man with a white woman who had mixed kids. Halsely's dad is mixed/biracial/has a 100% white mother.

Plus Mariah can actually sing.

I don't know many black people who consider Mariah "black" anyway. Most people know she is mixed and has a white mom.
Yea, OP conveniently used pictures of her with bone straight hair. But it’s very clear if your look at her childhood pics or even from her first album, she def has some admixture
 
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Mo.

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Because Halsey is claiming black, so she can claim a struggle. Oppression olympics and woke championship points are up for grabs.

Also let’s not act as if Mariah didn’t get criticised, she just didn’t blow up in the age of social media where the discourse can be tracked
 

JaniraBorges

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TaTa84

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Mariah claimed her black side when that wasnt in, She took risk with singing with rappers. She could of just been silent and be a Celine Dion type but no she freely said she is mix with black.
 

KrazyAngel

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Mixed black people who lean further into their black heritage tend to be more accepted by the culture. Halsey has never attempted to embrace the culture outside of simply claiming her father is black
This also. Mariah sang R&B and Soul, and always linked up with other black artists. Halsey sings pop/alternative music and caters to a largely white audience. Also it seems like when she was younger she was going through an identity crisis.
 

FORMERLYKNOWNASPRINCE

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I don’t have many things to add. Mariah at times is extremely white passing, and others she look like she’s mixed.


At the end of the day, it’s worth it for the black community to claim Mariah.


What does Halsey give us that we are gonna bend backwards to claim her other than “wanna be down” vibes.
 

PointOfOrder

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Mariah does not look like a white woman. I don't know what white people you are around. Mariah and her sibliings look like mixed race people. And Mariah's dad is black not mixed. And no don't tell me about buh buh buh the venezuelan great grandfather or whatever. Her dad was a black man with a white woman who had mixed kids. Halsely's dad is mixed/biracial/has a 100% white mother.

Plus Mariah can actually sing.

I don't know many black people who consider Mariah "black" anyway. Most people know she is mixed and has a white mom.
I think Op wants to know why black listeners like Mariah and not Halsey.

To answer your question Op, Mariah never pretended to be someone she isn't and we stan talent.
 

KrazyAngel

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I think Op wants to know why black listeners like Mariah and not Halsey.

To answer your question Op, Mariah never pretended to be someone she isn't and we stan talent.
And Halsey’s music doesn’t appeal to most black consumers.
 

THE STANDARD

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Technically Mariah’s name was supposed to be Maria Nunez, that’s what she said. If her last name was Nunez, Black Americans would view her differently. Her grandfather changed his last name to assimilate in America.

Neither Halsey( who is she? I don’t know her) or Mariah are Black women. They’re both mixed race women who can pass as White. Mariah is far more beloved and talented, that’s the major difference.
 

NIA HANABI

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One doesn’t claim blackness for clout/points/hairstyles but conduct herself like an overdramatic, victimized white woman in the same breath.

Also, I feel like black people tend to rock with people that are genuinely talented and generally unproblematic, regardless of race.

When I was growing up I didn’t know if I was supposed to love TLC or Britney.

I don’t mind Halsey’s music, but she’s got such a cringy personality. She knows damn well liking these two artists aren’t mutually exclusive. She loves acting like she’s constantly going through some courageous internal struggle.
 

kamilamb

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1. We’ve seen both sides of Mariah’s family and it (should) leaves no question as to what she “is.”

2. Mariah has embraced her black side throughout her entire career and it was never phony.

3. The Mariah Carey story has been told time and time again. Yes, she is biracial but she caught hell for having a black father. For once in her life, she was embraced by a side. After having the childhood she did, I don’t think it was wrong for black people to just go ahead and embrace her. She has never done or said anything out of line racially. She also never begged anyone to accept her. It came naturally.

I agree with all of this.
 

kamilamb

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I think Op wants to know why black listeners like Mariah and not Halsey.

To answer your question Op, Mariah never pretended to be someone she isn't and we stan talent.

Yes to all of this!!!
 

kamilamb

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I think Op wants to know why black listeners like Mariah and not Halsey.

To answer your question Op, Mariah never pretended to be someone she isn't and we stan talent.

Yes to all of this!!!
 

LovelySan

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Lsa likes Mariah and because she's a huge star and she has amazing vocals so they have no problem in claiming her. They don't like Halsey amd she isn't really a huge star or seen as this huge talent so they would never accept her as being black or even biracial. If Halsey was Beyonce level famous and could dance really well or had amazing vocals they'll be claiming her left and right.
Basically, how lsa reacts to celebrities is base on whether they like you or not. If they didn't like Mariah they'll be reacting to her the same way they do Halsey.
 

scaryfairy

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Neither are black, but Halsey isn't even biracial. She's a white woman with one black grandparent.

Also, music style shouldn't have anything to do with it. Who cares if Halsey makes pop music and has a white audience? That's not what makes her white. Her genetic makeup makes her white.
 

mochaice

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the real question is... why does Alexa's voice go up an octave when you say "Alexa, Play "i'm not mad" by Halsey." :disdain
 

LaGrandeDame

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Halsey sings pop/alternative music and caters to a largely white audience.

I'll also use this opportunity to point out the privilege in that (being able to do alternative pop with access to a mainstream [oyibo] audience--something that the industry allows once a generation [if even] with a Black artist). The fact that that girl has that (disputable "talent", notwithstanding) and is still playing oppression olympics is another reason why many are turned off by her.
 

Keep_It_Pretty

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When Vision of Love came out we all said she was a white girl who could sing, like Teena Marie. This whole "Mariah is Black" thing is from young people and non-Americans. We never cared about her nebulous-ass daddy. She's always just been a down white girl and has acted accordingly.

Halsey is just a weird try hard white girl.
 

Haveablessedday

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When Vision of Love came out we all said she was a white girl who could sing, like Teena Marie. This whole "Mariah is Black" thing is from young people and non-Americans. We never cared about her nebulous-ass daddy. She's always just been a down white girl and has acted accordingly.

Halsey is just a weird try hard white girl.

When Mariah first came out, she was described as "the white Whitney Houston" on black radio stations.

Mariah Carey in 1990: Critics Loved Her, Thought She Was White
By Joe Lynch
9/16/2015


When Mariah Carey entered the music world via her blockbuster self-titled debut in 1990, many critics hailed her practically peerless voice and parade of No. 1 hits. Some were less enthused, however, praising her technical talents but opining she needed to develop a more distinct musical approach.

Whether critics were right about Carey's style circa 1990 is a matter for discussion, but one prevalent viewpoint espoused by several writers 25 years ago is just plain wrong.

Namely, that Mariah Carey is white.

As (hopefully) everyone knows at this point, Mariah Carey is not white -- or perhaps more specifically, she's not just white. She's African-American and Venezuelan on her father's side and white Irish on her mother's. But publications from Los Angeles Daily News to Playboy to the Herald Sun described her as "white" throughout 1990, an error that at least two publications (New York Post and USA Today) wrote to correct.


In an article from Dec. 6, 1990, Australia's Herald Sun described Carey as "the new white U.S. soul singer with a reputed eight-octave range." That's wrong on two counts: Aside from not being white, Carey's range is five octaves.

An article from the Los Angeles Daily News (picked up in the Nov. 8 edition of the Chicago Tribune) made the same mistake. The article is primarily about Billboard changing the name of its Hot Black Singles chart to Hot R&B Singles (the chart is now called Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs), but it erroneously mentions Carey as white in a one-off example. "The term 'black music' also has caused confusion when it includes releases by white artists. This week, Mariah Carey's debut album is high on the chart and, in past years, George Michael has had the No. 1 album on the chart," the article reads. (Incidentally, Michael's father was a Greek Cypriot, which many would argue isn't white.)

After Playboy ran an article about Carey in 1990 that described her as a "white girl who can sing," reports surfaced via New York Post that she was furious with the writer of the piece. Shortly after, a spokesperson for Carey set the record straight to USA Today.

Mariah Carey in 1990: Critics Loved Her, Thought She Was White
 

Nubiacoco

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Has the definition of passing changed? From my understanding passing means not disclosing your Black ( or non White) heritage and looking very ambiguous to no Black at all.
 

Msangelbaby

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When Vision of Love came out we all said she was a white girl who could sing, like Teena Marie. This whole "Mariah is Black" thing is from young people and non-Americans. We never cared about her nebulous-ass daddy. She's always just been a down white girl and has acted accordingly.

Halsey is just a weird try hard white girl.

Lol, this is/was not true for every black person. A lot of black people have always embraced Mariah as “black” the same way they did Lisa Bonet or any other biracial celebrity who was constantly in black media. Black people were nowhere near the “stop claiming biracials as black” stuff that LSA is always going on about. The older crowd—who were apart of “one drop” America—definitely had no problem with claiming her as black.
 

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