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Women's 800 Meter Controversy (Intersex Athletes)

Sascha212

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What do you think about the 3 "Intersex" athletes competing in the Women's 800 Meter race?

Several of the competing women are pissed and have been complaining about their unfair advantage (significantly higher testosterone and undescended gonads). If they sweep the finals it will be a HOT MESS!


  • Caster Semenya


  • Margaret Nyairera Wambui


  • Francine Niyonsaba


[FONT=&amp]http://www.runnersworld.com/olympic...e-the-most-controversial-race-at-the-olympics
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Sleeping_Cutie

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I do not agree with it. Women's and girl's competitions should be for biological females only.

Intersex athletes may be more or less like women in their daily life and I do not think they should be discriminated against or blocked from women's areas like the "mtf" trans folks, but competitions like this need to be xes segregated. A person with testes or male biology should not be in women's races.
 

AngelinaWeasley

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I do not agree with it. Women's and girl's competitions should be for biological females only.

Intersex athletes may be more or less like women in their daily life and I do not think they should be discriminated against or blocked from women's areas like the "mtf" trans folks, but competitions like this need to be xes segregated. A person with testes or male biology should not be in women's races.

They ARE women. How is it their fault that something happened on a cellular level during conception/gestation? In most cases, intersex people don't even know unless there is some kind of genetic testing done. This is not even remotely close or comparable to transsexual individuals.

So, you would be okay with an intersex male competing with women because he has ovaries that aren't functional?
 

Shhhs

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I do not agree with it. Women's and girl's competitions should be for biological females only.

Intersex athletes may be more or less like women in their daily life and I do not think they should be discriminated against or blocked from women's areas like the "mtf" trans folks, but competitions like this need to be xes segregated. A person with testes or male biology should not be in women's races.


We don't know the real information on any of these people. It's all rumor. We know they are intersexed, but we don't know if the supposed leaked information is true. There are a variety of ways one can be intersexed.
 

Sascha212

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I empathize with them because they were born that way, it isn't their fault.

I also empathize with the women because it appears that Caster,etc have an advantage with the extra testosterone
(not conclusively proven at this point).
When Caster was taking hormones to lower her testosterone to "acceptable" levels she ran slower times. Now that she's not taking the hormones (per the recent ruling) she's totally dominating the sport. She may break the world record.

Do you think they should have to lower their testosterone to a woman's range and/or remove the gonads? I think they can become cancerous if not removed.



 

IIOO

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If they don't have male parts then they are women, simple as that. They're being targeted because they don't fit the female standard of beauty. Imagine if they started restricting athletes from certain events based on race because they have an "unfair" advantage.
 
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I'm sick of them talking about this every Olympics. Leave these bloody women alone.

They are WOMEN and are competing in the right category. If the other athletes dont like it, they can get the F on.

Im sick of the media bringing it up overtime. So damn disrespectful to the women themselves. Stop writing about these women who have done nothing but being alive and focus on your lying, good for nothing white men who make up stories about being held at gunpoint because they are vandalising drunkards.

Jesus make it stop!
 

Sleeping_Cutie

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They ARE women. How is it their fault that something happened on a cellular level during conception/gestation? In most cases, intersex people don't even know unless there is some kind of genetic testing done. This is not even remotely close or comparable to transsexual individuals.

So, you would be okay with an intersex male competing with women because he has ovaries that aren't functional?
No, they are not women. They are intersex. A woman is a human female who has reached the point of physical maturity. That is what a woman is. It is not their fault, but that doesn't mean they should be given passes when it comes to issues like this. It is just one of the sh!tty parts of life. Obviously I would not be ok with an intersex male competing with women. That's a ridiculous thing to assume when I clearly said that only biological females should compete in women's competitions.

We don't know the real information on any of these people. It's all rumor. We know they are intersexed, but we don't know if the supposed leaked information is true. There are a variety of ways one can be intersexed.
I know there are different ways to be intersexed, however it always means just that: that a person will have both male and female physical traits. I believe women's competitions should be for biological females only.
 

AngelinaWeasley

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No, they are not women. They are intersex. A woman is a human female who has reached the point of physical maturity. That is what a woman is. It is not their fault, but that doesn't mean they should be given passes when it comes to issues like this. It is just one of the sh!tty parts of life. Obviously I would not be ok with an intersex male competing with women. That's a ridiculous thing to assume when I clearly said that only biological females should compete in women's competitions.

I know there are different ways to be intersexed, however it always means just that: that a person will have both male and female physical traits. I believe women's competitions should be for biological females only.


So there should be special competitions that only intersex people can compete in?
 

Shhhs

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No, they are not women. They are intersex. A woman is a human female who has reached the point of physical maturity. That is what a woman is. It is not their fault, but that doesn't mean they should be given passes when it comes to issues like this. It is just one of the sh!tty parts of life. Obviously I would not be ok with an intersex male competing with women. That's a ridiculous thing to assume when I clearly said that only biological females should compete in women's competitions.

I know there are different ways to be intersexed, however it always means just that: that a person will have both male and female physical traits. I believe women's competitions should be for biological females only.


Look there are still a lot of unknowns in this stuff. One reason they stopped doing genetic test to verify gender is bc they kicked out a Polish chick for being XYXX and later she had a damned baby.

Now was she woman enough for woman enough for you?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ewa_Kłobukowska
I've also heard the rumor that Caster is a chimera, so what do you do w/that?

I think you are being overly harsh, especially bc it won't really effect you.

If Caster has a baby later will you feel bad?
 

Sleeping_Cutie

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So there should be special competitions that only intersex people can compete in?
I don't know if there is enough of a demand for that.

There is a reason why sports are segregated and it is to give biological females a fair playing ground and space to thrive in. To undo that is to spit in the face of all the women who have struggled, sacrificed, been humiliated, and dealt with a lot of sh!t in order to give women these opportunities. It wasn't just handed to us on a platter and we still have a lot of work to do.

I understand the emotional side, but we need to think with our heads and not go by knee-jerk reactions. I suspect that a lot of black women are triggered by this issue because they feel that black womanhood is in question. However, they are doing themselves a disservice by supporting black intersex people as being synonymous and interchangeable with black women. They see a black intersex person going against white women and want to support her, without realizing that an actual black woman has been shorted. As a woman, I do not feel interchangeable with someone who has testosterone producing testes and I do not relate to those who do.

If the reality of female biology is no longer considered a factor or is not worth anything, then it might as well be a free for all. Things are already headed that way and I'm not going to join the masses in stripping opportunities from my future daughters and grandchildren. That's all.
 

Silkky

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If they weren't competing, I'd say live and let live. but there is no denying that their higher levels of testosterone gives them an unfair advantage that 95% of the female population couldn't compete with even on their best day....that is why we have gender separate categories in the first place.

If they are not on testosterone blockers to put them as levels of the average female, they should not race with women.
 

Sp0ttie0ttie

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If they weren't competing, I'd say live and let live. but there is no denying that their higher levels of testosterone gives them an unfair advantage that 95% of the female population couldn't compete with even on their best day....that is why we have gender separate categories in the first place.

If they are not on testosterone blockers to put them as levels of the average female, they should not race with women.
I agree with the poster above. It's just not fair for them to be competing against women.
 

bravebird1

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If these were white "intersex" athletes nobody would be complaining. The media would be applauding them on their bravery and courage to speak out and defy the odds. Caster did not want to go public about being a hermaphrodite she faced huge scrutiny by the media, officials and the women in her event. Her sister even told the press Caster contemplated suicide.

But about the testosterone thing...it should be lowered just to be fair.
 

Moionfire

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I don't know if there is enough of a demand for that.

There is a reason why sports are segregated and it is to give biological females a fair playing ground and space to thrive in. To undo that is to spit in the face of all the women who have struggled, sacrificed, been humiliated, and dealt with a lot of sh!t in order to give women these opportunities. It wasn't just handed to us on a platter and we still have a lot of work to do.

I understand the emotional side, but we need to think with our heads and not go by knee-jerk reactions. I suspect that a lot of black women are triggered by this issue because they feel that black womanhood is in question. However, they are doing themselves a disservice by supporting black intersex people as being synonymous and interchangeable with black women. They see a black intersex person going against white women and want to support her, without realizing that an actual black woman has been shorted. As a woman, I do not feel interchangeable with someone who has testosterone producing testes and I do not relate to those who do.

If the reality of female biology is no longer considered a factor or is not worth anything, then it might as well be a free for all. Things are already headed that way and I'm not going to join the masses in stripping opportunities from my future daughters and grandchildren. That's all.

Preach!!
 

Moionfire

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NO, especially depending on the intersex condition. And Caster doesn't even seem to be intersex, as her situation was that her testes never descended. She doesn't have any female xes organs nor has two X chromosomes if I am correct. I don't mind women with unusually high testosterone performing though.
 

acrobat84

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Caster could have a condition where she is XY but the Y isn't completely functional. All fetus start as female and then reproductive organs develop, where errors happened. In a more developed country, the condition would have been caught every one. Internal testes like that are at high risk for becoming cancerous. They need to be removed - but that would ruin her athletic career.

The IOC doesn't test for XX or XY or accept that as a definition of gender because there are too many situations where it doesn't accurate reflect the gender of the person. Women can be XY and not have excessive testosterone due to conditions that cause testosterone not to be processed.

From what I've heard about this case, it seems like political correctness gone awry and it's quite possible that Caster was only raised female because the doctor and her parents couldn't determine her gender when she was born and chose female for her.

Say for example - the poor guy whose had a botched circumcision as a baby so his parents raised him as a girl - does he qualify to compete at the Olympics as a woman?

Caster's situation seems to be that her condition wasn't treated. I don't think this need to be encouraged or seen as a way for developing countries to find athletes by not giving required medical care to children.
 

THRILLHO

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Honestly I find it eye brow raising that these masculine women are excelling at the 800 in particular but I don't know enough about their conditions scientifically to form an opinion. Also, intersex is caused by a variety of genetic/chromosomal defects which can have different effects on the individual, so it's not a black and white issue imo.

I do find it troubling that these women have an advantage however

1. Are Niyonsaba and Wambui proven to be intersexed like Castor Semenya, or simply rumoured, based on their masculine appearance? I saw plenty of other women on the track with hard features and flat chests. So are we just making assumptions?

2. The intersexed Indian woman that originally caused the ruling of intersexed people not having to take testosterone blockers, has not had success, so is being intersexed a real advantage?

Basically I don't find it as cut and dry as the Transgender issue. It's something to keep an eye on but I won't be outraged against these intersexed women yet.
 

Sascha212

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Honestly I find it eye brow raising that these masculine women are excelling at the 800 in particular but I don't know enough about their conditions scientifically to form an opinion. Also, intersex is caused by a variety of genetic/chromosomal defects which can have different effects on the individual, so it's not a black and white issue imo.

I do find it troubling that these women have an advantage however

1. Are Niyonsaba and Wambui proven to be intersexed like Castor Semenya, or simply rumoured, based on their masculine appearance? I saw plenty of other women on the track with hard features and flat chests. So are we just making assumptions?

2. The intersexed Indian woman that originally caused the ruling of intersexed people not having to take testosterone blockers, has not had success, so is being intersexed a real advantage?

Basically I don't find it as cut and dry as the Transgender issue. It's something to keep an eye on but I won't be outraged against these intersexed women yet.

The other two women are rumored to be Intersex from a source in the IOC.

Per the article the reason why the Intersex women do well in the 800M is because it relies on power and natural talent and not technique so much. Athletes from poorer countries who don't have access to good coaches, equipment, etc are more likely to produce competitive athletes in the 800M.

Unlike the 100M where you need power, speed, more specialized training and technique. The Indian Intersex athlete runs the 100M.

p.s. They swept the 800 let the drama begin.
 

StormStokes

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Caster could have a condition where she is XY but the Y isn't completely functional. All fetus start as female and then reproductive organs develop, where errors happened. In a more developed country, the condition would have been caught every one. Internal testes like that are at high risk for becoming cancerous. They need to be removed - but that would ruin her athletic career.

The IOC doesn't test for XX or XY or accept that as a definition of gender because there are too many situations where it doesn't accurate reflect the gender of the person. Women can be XY and not have excessive testosterone due to conditions that cause testosterone not to be processed.

From what I've heard about this case, it seems like political correctness gone awry and it's quite possible that Caster was only raised female because the doctor and her parents couldn't determine her gender when she was born and chose female for her.

Say for example - the poor guy whose had a botched circumcision as a baby so his parents raised him as a girl - does he qualify to compete at the Olympics as a woman?

Caster's situation seems to be that her condition wasn't treated. I don't think this need to be encouraged or seen as a way for developing countries to find athletes by not giving required medical care to children.

so does caster not have a vagina or does she have a vagina and testes?
 

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